New single CP3, Single turbo record set!

MarkBroviak

DMax Junkie
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May 25, 2008
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Congrats and stock heads aren't so bad after all!

Thanks and unfortunately yes they do suck. This turbo will make 1650++hp on a real setup without batting an eye. I made 1440hp with an 88mm turbo with a 2.6 cover on it with a real motor setup under it. The difference in the heads is rpm power curve, power under the curve and egt control versus power output. Unfortunately the heads I had have proven to be a very sharp double edged sword and you can only stand the bleeding for so long.
 
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MarkBroviak

DMax Junkie
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May 25, 2008
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That pressure seems high on the surface, but when you compress 65 PSI the max chamber pressures jump a lot. Its not like your going from Zero PSI to Oh My God either. Just the compression will bring you up to about 250 bar.

The other thing is you really don't need high resolution on the pressure plots. 1°-2° resolution is more than adequate.

Exactly what Jon said! I made 780hp on a stock motor at the limit of the stock rod at 3,000psi max and had a lower compression motor with way more air(15.5:1 compression and triples) make 975hp at the same cylinder pressure! The static compression plays a big role in the final pressure seen. Jon, what do you feel is the safe limit for pressure on your cast ovals out of curiosity?
 

MarkBroviak

DMax Junkie
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May 25, 2008
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How come some of you don't like the duals? Was thinkin about goin with a set for the reliability and not havin to dig in there to pull stocker for stroker.. Just wondering y some don't like them? Is it the cludder,wiring or st of that nature? I tho two stock pump put out more the the 12mm? Just tryin to figure out best option... I will b goin to the stg2r as well btw....

Like I said before, singles eliminate all the clutter and make the diagnosis much easier when you actually do have an issue. The 12mm will support 1500hp with the right air combo so realistically it is the best pump choice for most guys out there.
 

smkndmax05

"Smoked Out"
Feb 17, 2011
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Thanks and unfortunately yes they do suck. This turbo will make 1650++hp on a real setup without batting an eye. I made 1440hp with an 88mm turbo with a 2.6 cover on it with a real motor setup under it. The difference in the heads is rpm power curve, power under the curve and egt control versus power output. Unfortunately the heads I had have proven to be a very sharp double edged sword and you can only stand the bleeding for so long.


Not trying to stir the pot just asking questions......1650+ with 250s and a 14mm or equivalent pumps and Socal heads or other name brand heads? I agree 100% pressures have to be different but when does that actually affect power? I haven't been on the dyno since I've put triples on but also haven't seen high egts or a lack of power above 4400 with my stock heads. I'm still running PPE cast pistons and haven't had any issues with cylinder pressure to date. On another note what's the new racing project? ODSS needs more Duramax equipped vehicle, would be good to see you back at the track...


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maine04max

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Dec 11, 2008
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Congrats on the results. Plus thanks for the great info


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CaptPhil

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Sep 10, 2011
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Like I said before, singles eliminate all the clutter and make the diagnosis much easier when you actually do have an issue. The 12mm will support 1500hp with the right air combo so realistically it is the best pump choice for most guys out there.
serious question.

From what I understand dual pumps flow a decent bit more than a 12mm, so how much power can a set of stock lbz pumps actually support? I didn't think it was that much, 1500+, otherwise why the need for triple cp3 kits and front covers that can run 5 of them.

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countrycorey

Trust Me I'm an Engineer
Jan 30, 2010
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serious question.

From what I understand dual pumps flow a decent bit more than a 12mm, so how much power can a set of stock lbz pumps actually support? I didn't think it was that much, 1500+, otherwise why the need for triple cp3 kits and front covers that can run 5 of them.

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Some of that has to do with more fuel up higher in the rpms or the ability feed huge injectors to spool a monstrous turbo setup . I saw where cummins killer was running 7500 rpms and had several cp3s (at least 3)


Corey
 

S Phinney

Active member
Aug 15, 2008
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Quncy, Fl
serious question.

From what I understand dual pumps flow a decent bit more than a 12mm, so how much power can a set of stock lbz pumps actually support? I didn't think it was that much, 1500+, otherwise why the need for triple cp3 kits and front covers that can run 5 of them.

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It depends on the total combo but around 1200 hp possibly a little more. They flow about the same as a 12mm pump but not quite as much.

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Fingers

Village Idiot
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Apr 1, 2008
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Jon, what do you feel is the safe limit for pressure on your cast ovals out of curiosity?

That is more complicated than you might think.

Static, they will handle well north of 10,000 PSI. However, that is not in the dynamic environment of the engine.

How well the area between the crown and the fire ring pressurizes during the cycle makes all the difference. Unless you relocate your pressure sensor to that area there isn't a good way to monitor this critical parameter. The pressure difference between the bowl and this area is one of the primary forces failing pistons.
 

x MadMAX DIESEL

<<<< No Horsepower
Dec 30, 2008
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Lexington, Ky
Are you able to use that that cylinder pressure vs crank angle to tune better on any dyno session? Or is that something that is extra cost and setup? Jw for future trip


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malibu795

misspeelleerr
Apr 28, 2007
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in the buckeye state
14mm At 4,500rpms this pump has an advertised output of 7.5L/min @ 1800bar. In comparison for reference, a stock pump at that rpm is 3.2L/min, Sportsman pump is 4.3L/min, 10mm is 5.3L/min, 12mm is 6.2L/min at the same 4,500rpms @1,800bar. Hope this helps out guys! I will keep you guys posted if I decide to push it farther in the near future!:thumb:

So those flow ratings work out to roughly the following gph numbers
3.2lpm = 50gph
4.2lpm = 68gph
5.3lpm = 84gph
6.3lpm = 93gph
7.5lpm = 119gph

Do we really need lift pump rated at 3x the volume or does 2x be sufficient?

In general application..

with understanding OEM lines even though 1/2" don't flow well considering all the bends and junctions in them, as say -8 braided line
And the understanding that even at full flow on the pumps its not sending 100% of pumped fuel to injectors
 

Hot COCOAL

May the farce be with you
Jun 9, 2012
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serious question.

From what I understand dual pumps flow a decent bit more than a 12mm, so how much power can a set of stock lbz pumps actually support? I didn't think it was that much, 1500+, otherwise why the need for triple cp3 kits and front covers that can run 5 of them.

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I thought I read two stock LBZ pumps "only" support 1100?
 

S Phinney

Active member
Aug 15, 2008
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28
Quncy, Fl
So those flow ratings work out to roughly the following gph numbers
3.2lpm = 50gph
4.2lpm = 68gph
5.3lpm = 84gph
6.3lpm = 93gph
7.5lpm = 119gph

Do we really need lift pump rated at 3x the volume or does 2x be sufficient?

In general application..

with understanding OEM lines even though 1/2" don't flow well considering all the bends and junctions in them, as say -8 braided line
And the understanding that even at full flow on the pumps its not sending 100% of pumped fuel to injectors
You need to remember there us also return that has to be accounted for.

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bcdeutsch731

Member
Nov 4, 2010
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Illinois
We will see what two stock LBZ Danville modded pumps make here in the next couple weeks. I dropped my race engine off at Danville so we can get a base line on how much power I was making the last couple years.
 

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MarkBroviak

DMax Junkie
Vendor/Sponsor
May 25, 2008
2,085
376
83
Danville Indiana
We will see what two stock LBZ Danville modded pumps make here in the next couple weeks. I dropped my race engine off at Danville so we can get a base line on how much power I was making the last couple years.

Yes it is and you guys are lucky because Brett has asked me to also run the 14mm cp3 on his setup to see what it is capable of on a real motor with tons of air so I will post that when I do it for everyone to see!