Nitorus and the diesel

[COMP461]

Pm's from your facebook fan page don't count :roflmao::roflmao:

Plus, anyone seeking advice from you is drinking the same water you drink from...

this was this forum

so back it up with fact . Why .

The party line that it just is because doesn't cut it .

I was racing before you were born.

I was racing diesel and setting records before you had a drivers lics

By the time you got a drivers lic, I had picked up 2 Hot Rod Magazine Fastest diesel plack's at Drag week. Had 25 magazine articles in diesel power , and was recruited to go and drive for GBE.

so why am I not extremely qualified to give advice.

This will require original thought ,and facts .......

 

[LBZ]

So say a few that have zero bearing on the real world. Name one time I have not been a professional. Name one Team I have left , where they didn't want me to stay. One tryed to sue me to stay. Name one thing in my signature that is not a milestone in the diesel motorsports areana when it was acomplished. Name one thing i claimed and was really done by others as some say

SURE My car took longer to get running, but for lack of tunning alone , not one single part of the car has changed except the ECM. . Sure one , and only one other has been able to make the ECD 16 work with a light weigh chassis . I do not run my car like that.

If I trully was that unprofessional, why are companys in the diesel community seeking me out to be involved in my car. I have been doing the diesel thing a long time. I was with these threads giving info that is key to racing . I have been answering question in pms and on the phone. The majority of people on here don't suscribe too the party line

So go ahead show where I'm unprofessional in public , name one instance where i have conned any company.

Look at my signature. I have recieved help parts and funding from every one of them . I have funding sucured for next season from them. I hear every time Jeff Dean call one of them to act like a jilted girl.
He and others have yet to talk anyone out of helping me

You call me a narcissist. Dude name one Profesional racers that does not come off that way
It's our job to make a splash, I do and that is part of the problem , just plain and simple jealousy.
I start a thread to give people and insite on how its done. Instead of letting people ask questions and get answers. You get upsit because it glorified me. We are going to run fast sooner out latter. If my public name recognition as a leader and inovator in the diesel areana upsits you now , it really will will when my PR machine goes in to high gear . I have the press releases written , as well as magazine deal ready to go. I got 37 articles over Project X . Peace out , i have pms to answer iver the sponsor thread.

BS on the tuning holding you back. You've had the car 5 years and never even fired it till what 6 months ago? Sounds like other issues there to me.

Which is fine, perfection and quality takes time except, you've been saying you are going to be this and that, the fastest and quickest by the end of the year, racing PDRA, racing this event, that event, and yet you are slower still then cars almost twice your weight and have done none of these things yet. You haven't hit sub 8's even in the quarter back to back yet. You don't have the numbers of a proven platform yet for a vehicle of that calibre. Just talk of what you think it should or will do.

This is arrogance, not confidence. And makes you look like a tool. And people get tired of hearing the same shit year after year. This is why alot of people don't want to hear or read what you have to say in the diesel community about your projects. Despite what you claim to have for people looking for your help, in the general diesel community your name doesn't ring of reverence. Sorry but that is the truth. We don't care how many sponsors you have, we don't care who you know or have worked with, we don't care that you're going to be on the radio. We want to see diesels pull heavy shit, chuck mud, and go really fn fast!! All while having fun.

What you did in the past with other teams on projects that were group built tuned and funded don't mean shit. This rail is supposedly YOUR own deal. Till YOU prove that your platform works, it's probably in your best interest to STFU about it till its proven itself. Then you can write up about it all you want and people then might take you seriously.

My biggest problem with you other than the above is that you won't and don't support the one organization that has done the most to bring diesel drag racing into the spotlight. It might not have been the pioneer, but it has consistently been the best one to date.

So why not? Are you too good to compete with the rest of diesel community? Or just scared your name might blend in with the crowd? Or scared of the competition? By not supporting this organization, your alienating yourself from the very people you're trying to sell yourself to.

Trying to single handedly promote and compete with the gasser world is fn foolish and again arrogant. You're never going to be the next John Force of drag racing that way. The best way to promote cars/trucks/rails whatever involved in that kind of super fast and exciting consistent racing is for a bunch of racers to get together and get a real competitive division going with the rest of the same like minded people. Once this is established, and 4 or 5 of you decide to jump into the NHRA, or PDRA, you will get noticed and accepted as a threat alot quicker and get some good competitive rivalries going. And also being taken seriously and not just viewed as a one off diesel powered dragster only good for exhibition. All important aspects of racing that is only lost on the look at me types.

That's what brings it to the mainstream, and accepted. Not that one guy that shows up but never gets off the jackstands, can't qualify, or just annoys people with his constant bragging about himself.

 

[Stingpuller]

Nice job LBZ!!!

I was going to respond after stupid brung me into this but you hit it dead on. No need to respond after that. Thanks

 

[CaptPhil]

I was under the believe that nitrous always put the flame out . Then the first of the summer , we were doing some tune work, I stall check it on the convertor and then Chris uses that Data to tune . We inadvertently turned on a system that was missing a jet in one hole . it did this is one revolution of the motor , because after the compression was gone the cylinder could not fire

flame from speed is a component of combustion efficient. The faster the mixture burns with out detonation the more power you make. other component's of this are combustion chamber design, fuel dispersion, and droplet size

One thing with doing engine development , you must keep an open mind and go where the data takes you , not try to make the data fit your beliefs

can I ask a serious question?

how did missing a jet in one hole melt down a piston? especially just during a stall check, which is a relatively low load situation. there are pullers running way more timing and fuel per unit of air than any of us would ever consider, so i wouldn't think that the cylinder went too rich or got too hot. does the nitrous spray 100% of the time during the burnout and staging?

I have very little knowledge of nitrous, so I may be way off.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[TDavis1992]

Well... This was a great read INFORMATIONALLY until it went full retard...

 

[hondarider552]

this was this forum

so back it up with fact . Why .

The party line that it just is because doesn't cut it .

I was racing before you were born.

I was racing diesel and setting records before you had a drivers lics

By the time you got a drivers lic, I had picked up 2 Hot Rod Magazine Fastest diesel plack's at Drag week. Had 25 magazine articles in diesel power , and was recruited to go and drive for GBE.

so why am I not extremely qualified to give advice.

This will require original thought ,and facts .......

For racing before I was born, I thought you'd be winning a lot more than you say you do.

For being old as shit, I would have thought you would be a lot more supportive at the newer crowd to further advance the sport, but no, it's sll about you and what you did 25 years ago with other people's money...

 

[COMP461]

can I ask a serious question?

how did missing a jet in one hole melt down a piston? especially just during a stall check, which is a relatively low load situation. there are pullers running way more timing and fuel per unit of air than any of us would ever consider, so i wouldn't think that the cylinder went too rich or got too hot. does the nitrous spray 100% of the time during the burnout and staging?

I have very little knowledge of nitrous, so I may be way off.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

First off a stall check is 100% load on the motor when a motor is on the trans brake your full throttle . We leak the motor often. Normal leak is 3 to 5 % warm . After the this stall check that hole leaked 100%.
This convertor stalls with one stage of nitrous 4700. When we chassis dyno. We dyno from an idle. And when the turbos light (3200 rpm) I tag both gear changes and we let if go intill 6200 . With this convertor it will lay on the convertor for a good 2 seconds. A total flat line . This is the way racing convertors work .
As to why one hole burn up. A diesel under full load , full power can go lean. This was simply a fubar.
Nitrous on a diesel is a wonderful thing. When you are trying to get up on the pipe to much nitrous you can have the can lose fire from the intake temp being to cold. This is not the case when you are up and under full load.

I really believe in progressive nitrous, the are ways to build a motor and waste gate control to further inhance this . When I raced project X, I used progressive nitrous to acheaves some unhead of 60 foots in a sub 1000 hp 2wd truck (1.60s) . I left at much lower boost, and ramped the nitrous in as fast as the motor could take it. A huge problem with boost launches is loading the suspension to the point that when you release the brake , theee is no suspension travel left to set the tire. A drag racing suspension will use the energy on the launch to drive the tire in to the ground.
I set project X up to futher inhance this. I ran a 4.88 rear gear with a 29 tall drag radial . The best times were low 11s at 129 mph . I used a single leaf spring with a custom calTracs.

 

[CaptPhil]

As to why one hole burn up. A diesel under full load , full power can go lean. This was simply a fubar.

since nitrous is not a fuel source, and that cylinder alone was not getting nitrous, it would have been running rich, not lean. lean as you know is an air fuel ratio above the ideal, which is the opposite of what a full fueled cylinder without nitrous would have been, especially in an engine where the rest of the cylinders are getting the spray and with a tune set up as such. diesels have no throttle plate, they are constantly striving for a lean condition, introducing nitrous would only push the stoich ratio higher, lean.

I will rephrase my last question. can the engine make a dyno pull or a track pass with that current tune without using nitrous at all and without melting down?


Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[COMP461]

since nitrous is not a fuel source, and that cylinder alone was not getting nitrous, it would have been running rich, not lean. lean as you know is an air fuel ratio above the ideal, which is the opposite of what a full fueled cylinder without nitrous would have been, especially in an engine where the rest of the cylinders are getting the spray and with a tune set up as such. diesels have no throttle plate, they are constantly striving for a lean condition, introducing nitrous would only push the stoich ratio higher, lean.

I will rephrase my last question. can the engine make a dyno pull or a track pass with that current tune without using nitrous at all and without melting down?


Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

when I said missing a jet. it meant that 7 cylinders had a jet . 027 jet , and one had no restriction . I would think that 90% of the nitrous flow from the .125 Nitrous outlet solenoid was flowing in to that cylinder.

here is a myths about diesels that is simply untrue in the real world.
.
First Diesel run on detonation . This is false.
The diesel combustion process is initiated by compression ignition . The flame kernel starts out when the fuel is first introduced to an atmosphere that has enough temperature to ignite the fuel. The flame front burns like any other internal combustion, to a degree. This flame front follows the fuel plumes. Diesel fuel has a slow burn rate, so it makes power for more degrees on crankshaft rotation . This is in the 40 to 50 degree range ATDC . this is where the ability to make big power comes from. Gasoline engines make power for 20 to 30 degrees. Top Fuel Nitro engines make push on the piston until they open the exhaust valve at 70 to 75 degrees BBDC



the simple answer to nitrous is if you are lean at the top of your power curve then you can go over the edge . diesels on the engine dyno are around .35 to .37 BSFC at peak power. This is at .05 or less opacity. The myth that more fuel equals more power is false. adding fuel pulse width once you get these motors tunes up will not add appreciable power. When a diesel is lean and up on the pipe the EGTs are going to get hot .

As Chris leans my motor down, we are dramatically getting rid of the smoke, it keeps picking up power. The convertor is picking up stall.

hope this clears it up .



A diesel can detonate.

 

[COMP461]

What you did in the past with other teams on projects that were group built tuned and funded don't mean shit. This rail is supposedly YOUR own deal.

.

this is a absolute myth , with the exception of GBE the Dr Performance truck was 100% my deal. I had between $10,000 and $15,000 of my own money I spent on that truck. I had to beg others do paid fabrication work for me. But the tune and the ideals that were that truck were 100% me. I build it in the back room of RayMac where everyone would laugh at the fact I was wasting time on a diesel. I even assembled the motor under the watchfully eye of Ray little. Every aspect and though process was my thought or design. I am tired of people saying this is arrogance. Its a simple fact, I did it and others that took over later after I went to GBE, took credit for business reason. There is no reason I need to be humble on this truck. It was a huge accomplishment. Were there a few people that come over and helped , sure , but they were buddy's that helped.


The NX dragster was me as well. I asked Greg at ZZ to build Headers , intake and fab work. I laid out the length and tapper of the runners , Just as I did on any motors .

I paid out of my own pocket for a good deal of this . NX never gave me one dime on that car. I even had a paid bill from NX on this car for fittings that was well over a $1000, spent a great deal of money to take it to the PRI show and my own expensive. I paid to paint it and, paid for the $800 worth of Decals . Every part on that car was bought by me , or given to me for my project that started the day after I left GBE. The bare frame was owned by my Friend of 35 years Mike Wood. Mike owns NX , but like any smart business man that owns hospitals and oil company's , he delegates that full authority to his more then capable managers. I was spent out , I had spent $30,000 at this point. I spent about $2500 a month as I could , but they wanted it faster . They had zero help for me, There was the promise of money from a marketing company on the energy drink . That never happen.
The management of NX was unaware of who owned what. I learned after the fact, from a person that claimed to have lost his Job over this that, a fuel air separation company offered a great deal of money to sponsor that car , if anyone but me was driving . I saw the artist renditions of the car with their logo. This motivated them to try and take ownership of the car. They had no ideal that all they got was a bare frame back. Every piece of project is now on my car.


Hate to have to air the laundry , but I keep hearing the lies that I was just a by stander

Project X was my deal as well, It was owned by Manuel Auto Group. Kirk Manuel and I have raced together for many many years . He was a very busy man with 17 dealerships to run. He would work on Project X for stress relief , and some times in a suit. I have many thousands of hours in that truck, and I was the one that raced it . Kirk got a new wife and we didn't get along at all . That is why that truck sets at a dealership. David at Diesel Power grounded it until me and Kirk once again bring it back out. The truck has 37 articles including 2 in hot rod magazine


So I know you try to diminish my involvement, but this is the talking points of the kiddos on the other forum.

 

[Hot COCOAL]

We care about tech...and intechrity (see what I did there )

when I said missing a jet. it meant that 7 cylinders had a jet . 027 jet , and one had no restriction . I would think that 90% of the nitrous flow from the .125 Nitrous outlet solenoid was flowing in to that cylinder.

here is a myths about diesels that is simply untrue in the real world.
.
First Diesel run on detonation . This is false.
The diesel combustion process is initiated by compression ignition . The flame kernel starts out when the fuel is first introduced to an atmosphere that has enough temperature to ignite the fuel. The flame front burns like any other internal combustion, to a degree. This flame front follows the fuel plumes. Diesel fuel has a slow burn rate, so it makes power for more degrees on crankshaft rotation . This is in the 40 to 50 degree range ATDC . this is where the ability to make big power comes from. Gasoline engines make power for 20 to 30 degrees. Top Fuel Nitro engines make push on the piston until they open the exhaust valve at 70 to 75 degrees BBDC



the simple answer to nitrous is if you are lean at the top of your power curve then you can go over the edge . diesels on the engine dyno are around .35 to .37 BSFC at peak power. This is at .05 or less opacity. The myth that more fuel equals more power is false. adding fuel pulse width once you get these motors tunes up will not add appreciable power. When a diesel is lean and up on the pipe the EGTs are going to get hot .

As Chris leans my motor down, we are dramatically getting rid of the smoke, it keeps picking up power. The convertor is picking up stall.

hope this clears it up .



A diesel can detonate.

Of course a diesel.can detonate...

It doesn't clear it up at all....you say things that are spot on the money and then in the next sentance say things so absurd youd think you have no clue... I think YOURE "on top of the pipe" bro...

You are entertaining tho...


So 90% of the N2O was hitting that cylinder huh...
Well, from what we've learned about flame propagation and cyl temps that wouldve just cooled that cylinder off and that piston wouldn't have melted, now, would it?

You seem to mix and confuse legitimate tech with your personal thoughts and theroies...
And while you stumble through explaining your mixed theroy, you tend to spend more of your time talking about the past and some drama with any number of different people you've been associated with...


This is the smoke and mirrors BS that everyone, myself included, gets sick of you for.

Oh, and initially wasn't that piston melt down due to learning the NIRA tuning curve...?
And now your telling us on a fully loaded test run of a race engine, you were missing a jet on a cylinder...wow cupcake...

I almost feel sorry for you, Greg...

 

[COMP461]

should I not defend myself when people tell lies about me .

I too thought that nitrous would cool the cylinder down with to much nitrous until this . The EGT tells the story , the other 7 EGT's were about 600 to 800 , 1.5 seconds in to the stall check, and then number 4 , which was missing the jet went to 1900 in 2 tenths of a second .This was when the nitrous started flowing . We had inadvertently hooked up the spool stage up to the third nozzle circuit. the motor leaker good after testing the week before . The motor leaked 100% after this pull. The K factor on this convertor is around 1300 real hp at 4700 rpms stall .

This is real data not speculation , It has changed my thoughts on nitrous as well, but this is only at the high end while the motor is between peak torque and peak power .


when doing engine development you have to follow the date and not you theories

 

[Stingpuller]

Nitrous

That's a injector problem not a nitrous problem! It has to have fuel to burn. Nitrous will not burn without fuel. Now there is some tech.

 

[COMP461]

same injectors in there now it idles smooth and run at 2350 bar at 6000 + rpms no problem. it was one pull on the convertor , 10 seconds latter a burned piston , the jet was missing on # 4 and #4 burned a pistons.

I leaked the motor after we got back from the track the weekend before , all was fine . 10 seconds later all cylinders except # 4 leak 98% or better # 4 leaks 100%

I leak my motors often, I check bearings often ,


simple.

 

[Stingpuller]

Really

Is the nitrous direct injected into that cylinder or just at the port? Go find someone who doesn't know any better.

 

[Stingpuller]

That's funny

You said you just switched to exergy! Which is it?

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

That's a injector problem not a nitrous problem! It has to have fuel to burn. Nitrous will not burn without fuel. Now there is some tech.

He never said it didn't have fuel, he said plain as day that he was pulling it up on the convertor UNDER load(AKA, IT HAD FUEL), hit the N2O, and then this happened. Seems easy enough for me to understand. Haven't you ever seen what nitrous does in an extreme situation, doesn't it make a nice beautiful yet VIOLENT blue flame that goes off with a HUGE bang. If just one cylinder was put in a situation of MASSIVE over oxidation WITh fuel present in the combustion chamber, I could see something like this happeneing, and is what he basically said happened. I'm not taking any sides here as I have no dog in this fight, but it always seems like the same guys here, and on several other forums stirring the pot and calling others out. I agree with prove your work with ET's, and am not a keyboard commando of any sort. But when people start closing out discussion, that's when progression ceases. If you don't agree with somebody, fine, go on about your day. But it's the open sharing of ideas from ALL parties with NEW ideas(no matter how backwards YOU might THINK they are), that will furthur the sport and technology as a whole the fastest.

 

[Stingpuller]

Maybe you don't understand!

Nitrous on its one WILL NOT BURN! Unless he had extra fuel to go with the nitrous IT WILL NOT BURN. I do understand and that's the problem. Maybe you need to do some checking before you call me out. When it goes lean it makes a Big Bang. Nothing burns. These are not gas motors they are direct injected In case you didn't know! Pun intended. There is no fuel in the intake anywhere to burn like a gas motor. It would need lots of extra fuel to do what his done.

 

[Stingpuller]

You don't get it

His BS will affect others in a bad way. That's why I say something. If I can stop someone from getting a reaming I'm going to. Money is to hard to come by, at least around these parts it is.

 

[joesixpack]

I must be bored out of my scull.

That engine was fueled hard during a 4700rpm stall. One cylinder was getting 90%+ of the nitrous stage. It sounded horrendous egt's went through the roof and acted like it was only firing random cycles. With no IC and with the high manifold heat of the charge air along with mechanical compression it was firing. My guess is the late and excess fuel from previous cycles was combusting more like detonation than compression ignition.

The moral of the story, at full load don't put a whole noid worth of the juice to one hole.

Those willing to try it, report back with the results.....:roflmao: