2016 2500HD DMAX Steering woes-

[THEFERMANATOR]

I think the system is cool. If manufacturers didn't try new things and make improvements, we would still be driving horses and buggies. We sure wouldn't have a common rail diesel with aluminum heads. I remember when the Duramax came out and everyone said it would be a piece of junk.

I still to this day hear the rumor about the heads melting off pulling a load. It's normally a FORD fanboy, and they get butthurt when you tell them GORD's doing it now to. Even had one guy who was driving a 6.7l powerstroke laugh at my DURAMAX and say how my heads would melt off if I ever loaded it down. The liok when I pointed out his truck had them to and had the reverse flow design that GM came up with was priceless.

 

[JD Dave]

My 16 is way nicer to drive then my 15 and the easy steering is mainly why. Call me a ***** but plowing snow or when in tight parking areas the easier the steering the better. Makes you feel like your driving a small car. I wish the big truck manufacturers would start making an easy steer option.

 

[QueenGlamis]

Update:

She's home and back to perfect as far as I can tell so far! :thumb: :woott: Putting her to work towing tomorrow so hopefully this is the last problem we have :joker:

Thank you all for the feedback!

 

[Chevy1925]

Update:

She's home and back to perfect as far as I can tell so far! :thumb: :woott: Putting her to work towing tomorrow so hopefully this is the last problem we have :joker:

Thank you all for the feedback!

good to hear

 

[Dozerboy]

Looks like the beginning stages of self driving truck is here. I'm still bitchen about not being able to turn off abs. I'll never have a new personal truck again. I don't like driving my 2014 chevy work truck.

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[c20elephant]

With Microsoft leading the world in games with joysticks the first thing to go will be the steering wheel, throttle and brake pedal and the majority of information from humans to joystick to the actual mechanics will be gleened from that information.

From those games then real life testing (IIRC Microsoft is the leader in flight simulation software, could be wrong). The driverless car is quite aways out for the general public, replacing the steering wheel, throttle and brake pedal will come sooner, take a moment and think about that one again, no steering wheel, throttle or brake pedal , and no more of this....:woott:

 

[Chevy1925]

With Microsoft leading the world in games with joysticks the first thing to go will be the steering wheel and the majority of information from humans to joystick to the actual mechanics will be gleened from that information.

From those games then real life testing (IIRC Microsoft is the leader in flight simulation software, could be wrong). The driverless car is quite aways out for the general public, replacing the steering wheel will come sooner, take a moment and think about that one, no steering wheel, and no more of this....:woott:

Not in my lifetime will that ever happen. doing so would have just limited your selling of cars to a very very select few and thats even if they can get the safety stuff to pass the gov so no big company is going to want to take this on and have a limit on the people they can sell to right out the gate. play a racing video game and tell me how easy it is to vary the steering degree angle when taking a corner at speed. use a tall joy stick if you like. its EXTREMELY difficult even with a tall one and would be dangerous in a car. it would be like changing your steering box to where it takes 1/2 turn to go full left from center or full right. on the freeway, that is not safe.

we will see a self driving car w/ steering wheel marketed to the public well before you ever see a joy stick in one. Flying is completely different than driving on the road where a turn can be managed in a few feet vs a plane taking waaaaay more space.

 

[LBZ]

Sorry I just don't see the point nor do I find it difficult to steer with big tires going slow in a parking lot in my truck to even warrant needing it.

For those who want to compare modern power steering to driving a dump truck I think you need to jump in an old vehicle with Armstrong steering and go for a rip. Compared to that, power steering is a necessary upgrade. Comparing modern power steering to this system, I just don't see the need.

It's like the lane departure stuff. Too much unnecessary babysitting IMO driving up the cost of a truck that's going to cost ridiculous amounts of money to fix once off warranty.

If people want it, it should just be an option. Or just go buy a prius.

 

[ChevyMax56]

The Cat loaders the 980 and larger are all joystick controlled steering and loader operation. and now with the newer models the smaller 950s have the joystick option for extra 10k. They are pretty responsive and accurate. also the Cat motor graders went to all joystick control with the start of the M series. Many older operators were mad about it since they were used to the steering wheel

 

[Dozerboy]

I agree with james. What does a loader go 15 maybe 20mph? LOTS of guy complained about Cat going to joy stick controls on there blades. Especially the guys that are running them down County Roads at 40mph and meet a car.

When Cat had Diffsteer on their dozers mechanic didn't know how to set them up properly and will get them all screwed up. It would either turn so sharp and so fast it would throw you out the window or it would barely turn at all.

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[ChevyMax56]

I agree with james. What does a loader go 15 maybe 20mph? LOTS of guy complained about Cat going to joy stick controls on there blades. Especially the guys that are running them down County Roads at 40mph and meet a car.

When Cat had Diffsteer on their dozers mechanic didn't know how to set them up properly and will get them all screwed up. It would either turn so sharp and so fast it would throw you out the window or it would barely turn at all.

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yeah from the stories I heard before starting at Cat you could find yourself in a ditch real quick when the first graders with them came out.

 

[LBZ]

The mine I work at has a komatsu 1200 loader that's all joystick. Once you get used to it their pretty slick and comfortable to use. Same for our CAT 24M grader.
But a machine that size is not very fast. I couldn't imagine trying to drive a car with controls like that. It would be tough without feedback from the road for me to drive I think.

 

[duratothemax]

I wish they went into depth on the operation of the steering assist system. There's a few papers talking about the capabilities of those systems, such as: The ability to tie in with the vehicle stability program and assist the driver in recovering in a VSES event; then actually turn the wheels on it's own for things like automatic parallel parking/backing up a trailer (I'll be the first to admit I have little practice backing up trailers - I own a duramax for fun )

In fact, almost every electronic steering system (those using electric motors) has these capabilities, I just don't believe most manufactures are using them, yet. The duramax's system is the first recirculating ball to have the ability to turn the wheel on it's own - I just don't think it does so in any circumstance.

The HD digital steering assist system is NOT electric power steering like we have come to know in smaller vehicles. There is no electric motor. The system CAN NOT turn the steering wheel on its own.

All it is is an extremely more intricate/advanced/smart version of the "variable effort steering" that the GMT-400's had back in the mid/late 90's.

electronically varying the amount of (hydraulic) power assist pressure available to the box based on steering angle and a dozen or more inputs from various sensors around the truck, combined with a smart/fuzzy-logic algorithm that can adapt to different driving conditions and road crowns.

 

[duratothemax]

I think the system is cool. If manufacturers didn't try new things and make improvements, we would still be driving horses and buggies. We sure wouldn't have a common rail diesel with aluminum heads. I remember when the Duramax came out and everyone said it would be a piece of junk.

I totally agree.

The digital steering assist on the HD's is really the future. I dont know if we'll ever see true/traditional electric power steering on the HD trucks due to the fact that we'll always need hydraulic assist for the brakes (so if a power steering pump is there putting parasitic load on the engine, might as well use it for steering too)...and also the amount of power required to turn the wheels on pavement at 0mph with 6,000lbs hanging on the front end would probably tax the electrical system for more than its worth.

Digital steering assist combines the best of both worlds. Hydraulic brute strength and durability, with the tunability and intelligence of an electric system.

It makes the trucks handle better, adapts to various road conditions, better road feel, easier parking lot maneuvering, improve stability control performance, better for plowing and other heavy abuse conditions, etc. And it can always be further improved with a simple software update...lowering development costs down the road.

Different weight and wheelbase trucks can have their steering tuned individually to perform best for the application WITHOUT the cost of producing multiple different steering boxes.

Remember, the steering box mechanicals havent changed much from the older steering boxes...they just added a smart-controlled solenoid valve.

 

[duratothemax]

And finally, keep in mind that the original posters' problems started with a power steering LEAK. IE, something totally unrelated to the electronics or digital steering assist problem....

 

[duratothemax]

GM had this back in the 90's and ditched it with the gmt-800 trucks because there were so many complaints with it. So they went and made it 10x more complicated, and brought it back? Way to go GM.

True...but come on Ferm you think in the 20 years that has progressed in electronics and automotive design in general, they havent been able to design a better mousetrap??

That old VES system they used back in the day had all of the logic, precision and processing power of a clock radio.

Not to mention all of the steering angle sensors are digital and redundant now, with the (digital steering assist) system monitoring and processing dozens more sensor inputs...all with accuracy and control that the engineers couldnt even dream of back then.

Its like comparing anything automotive technology (especially electronics) related. Even only 5 years change can be massive in terms of performance improvement.

 

[chrisuns]

The HD digital steering assist system is NOT electric power steering like we have come to know in smaller vehicles. There is no electric motor. The system CAN NOT turn the steering wheel on its own.

All it is is an extremely more intricate/advanced/smart version of the "variable effort steering" that the GMT-400's had back in the mid/late 90's.

electronically varying the amount of (hydraulic) power assist pressure available to the box based on steering angle and a dozen or more inputs from various sensors around the truck, combined with a smart/fuzzy-logic algorithm that can adapt to different driving conditions and road crowns.

Hmm, not to argue; as I'm sure you know the system better than I. However, isn't it one of the Nexsteer torque overlay systems and allows parking assist and lane keep assist? At least their literature claims that it is or am I reading that wrong?

http://www.nexteer.com/news-release...-steering-to-heavy-duty-light-truck-market-2/

I'm trying to find the one where they specifically mention the contract with GM for the 3/4 tons - that says it uses the magnasteer along with torque overlay. - http://www.nexteer.com/news-releases/nexteer-delivers-adas-eps-like-functions/

I personally was under the impression the solenoid controlled a valve that allowed hydraulic fluid to turn the wheel (for operations like park assist). Rumor mill was the Ford F-250 was going using a similar system to include their trailer back-up assist.

 

[WVRigrat05]

Wouldn't it basically kill the power steering to prevent turning into the other lane?

 

[NC-smokinlmm]

Does my early 15 have this Ben?

 

[JoshH]

Does my early 15 have this Ben?

Afaik, it didn't make it onto any trucks until '16.