Snow or Painless??
- Thread starter LBZ
- Start date
that's about 1 lb or around 1000 BTU in evaporative latent heat consumption, or a rate of 360,000 BTU/hr. That's about right for all the induction heat you are creating, but if it is all post-compressor, your evap rate is a speculative 10%. So mostly all you are getting from it is egt reducton plus a bit of fuel value (if meth mix) and a great cylinder steam clean. IMHO, you need to route 70% of this flow to pre-compressor.
But it is a great question with lots of answers depending on who you talk to. My approach is much different than most others, and involves psychrometric charts, MAF and saturation calculations. Good for another thread.
Too much nerd talk for me but when you get some of the units you are talking about building or have built and get some test results back, I would be very interested in seeing these ACCURATE results and possibly buying one of your systems if they work as well as expected without damaging the compressor wheel.
Just rambling.
If the water is truly vaporized in the intake tract, it goes into the cylinder, then pressure goes up to about 1200psi as the boosted air/water mix is compressed by the piston. At 1200psi, I would think most all the water in the air would return to liquid state. Dunno though. I know water's boiling point increases as pressure goes up.
I had always expected water to increase power, as it would expand more than hot air would from the heat of combustion, effectively using the heat available more efficiently. But it doesn't. So I'm thinking that it never actually expands into gas state due to the pressure in the chamber.
But it does cool the turbine, no doubt. It hasn't kept the pistons from starting to melt for us, so I'm not sure the cooling effect to the piston is significant. My guess why that is, is that the piston has a relatively small surface area and a lot of mass, and there is a very small mass of air trapped in the cylinder each cycle. Kinda like trying to cool a hot skillet by spitting on it.
If the water is truly vaporized in the intake tract, it goes into the cylinder, then pressure goes up to about 1200psi as the boosted air/water mix is compressed by the piston. At 1200psi, I would think most all the water in the air would return to liquid state. Dunno though. I know water's boiling point increases as pressure goes up.
I had always expected water to increase power, as it would expand more than hot air would from the heat of combustion, effectively using the heat available more efficiently. But it doesn't. So I'm thinking that it never actually expands into gas state due to the pressure in the chamber.
But it does cool the turbine, no doubt. It hasn't kept the pistons from starting to melt for us, so I'm not sure the cooling effect to the piston is significant. My guess why that is, is that the piston has a relatively small surface area and a lot of mass, and there is a very small mass of air trapped in the cylinder each cycle. Kinda like trying to cool a hot skillet by spitting on it.
If your asking me, with my tow tune, I run a max of about 22psi and the average at 1900rpm is about 5 to 10 when towing 9000lbs.
My race tune runs uperwards of 28 if I am lucky and shifts at 3700rpm.
I have a hard time building boost at the best of times, but no problem building egt's!!
At 1200psi, I believe the boiling point of water is ~600*F. So chances are it would remain a gas no as combustion temps are almost double that depending on how hard you are fueling correct?
If I am right here, this could explain why people running lots of water in when the egt's are low could experience issues with hydro locking or poor combustion. High Cyl Pressure + Low Combustion Chamber Temp = Liquid not Vapor right?
Or am I out to lunch here? Problem is the ratio of pressure vs boiling point is not linear either so without a large formula, it's tough to calculate exact numbers.
If I am right here, this could explain why people running lots of water in when the egt's are low could experience issues with hydro locking or poor combustion. High Cyl Pressure + Low Combustion Chamber Temp = Liquid not Vapor right?
Or am I out to lunch here? Problem is the ratio of pressure vs boiling point is not linear either so without a large formula, it's tough to calculate exact numbers.
Last edited:
If your asking me, with my tow tune, I run a max of about 22psi and the average at 1900rpm is about 5 to 10 when towing 9000lbs.
My race tune runs uperwards of 28 if I am lucky and shifts at 3700rpm.
I have a hard time building boost at the best of times, but no problem building egt's!!
You can run more safely at higher boost numbers using pre-c misting. That is the real value in evap cooling to a pseudo-isothermal compression...less turbine work since less heat (and induction backpressure) is created in compression.
You have a hard time building 28 psi? You shouldn't. 35 psi is very achievable if there are no leaks, but not at 1800 rpm obviously.
No issues with my labonte kit and I fill my 5 gallon tank up once a week if i drive every day, city and highway traffic.
Pat, you asked how much can one inject?
On the back of my nozzels it says "M8" and "M12"
I called dan @ labonte up and he told me with the 250psi pump that I have all full boost it is flowing 800 ml/min and 1200ml/min.
That is A LOT of water...
Im not 100% sure that what he told me is true or not, but It does seems like I use more water/meth an everybody that I have talked to..
Pat, you asked how much can one inject?
On the back of my nozzels it says "M8" and "M12"
I called dan @ labonte up and he told me with the 250psi pump that I have all full boost it is flowing 800 ml/min and 1200ml/min.
That is A LOT of water...
Im not 100% sure that what he told me is true or not, but It does seems like I use more water/meth an everybody that I have talked to..
Last edited:
If you are running both nozzles, that ~2 quarts a minute, or 4 pints, or a pint per 15 seconds.
Once, i forgot to turn the system off on mine and the next day, coolish morning, system still on, i left the house and it was set to come on at iirc 7psi and once the boost came up it activated and the truck started to hesitate and i saw white smoke from the exhaust. Ooops, figured out it was on It didnt have enough heat to keep lit so the M/W was putting the "fire" out No big deal at all. once op temps were up some, turned it back on, all good! And this was 30% meth mix.
One would prolly have to be injecting an awfull lot to hydro the motor?
It didnt have enough heat to keep lit so the M/W was putting the "fire" out No big deal at all. once op temps were up some, turned it back on, all good! And this was 30% meth mix.One would prolly have to be injecting an awfull lot to hydro the motor?
You would think so, but I think I spiked 30psi once or twice when I was in Cali, and the rest of the time I am lucky to get 28 in 3rd or 4th. For some reason, this truck has NEVER been able to build much boost. And believe me, I have tried many different tunes to try to make it happen.
But this is OT.
You would think so, but I think I spiked 30psi once or twice when I was in Cali, and the rest of the time I am lucky to get 28 in 3rd or 4th. For some reason, this truck has NEVER been able to build much boost. And believe me, I have tried many different tunes to try to make it happen.
But this is OT.
You must have a leak as I can hit 45psi here and you have more done to your truck then me. I have to tune it out or it will be hitting 45+ all day. Since you
have a LBZ you should be able to hit 35 like nothing. Maybe next time you are in Edmonton or I am near Red Dear I could take a look.