TS Outlaw Drags called off! (From CompD)

[malibu795]

At Scheids last August I was trying to help Dan Scheid and his crew get the idiots to stop being idiots. We made multiple announcements all day long and tried to deter it as much as possible. The local police were there doing what they could.

If you were referring to this wekend...I was NOT at the track or the campground when this stuff happened.
We were at the large pre-party at Wahbah's hosted and sponsored by competitiondiesel.com and powerstrokenation.com.

We not only offered a FREE place for everyone to congregate for the night but we gave away thousands in prizes and I don't know how many free passes for the weekend events. I also made myself available to several people for rides to their hotels or camps...including a few teens that didn't have a ride.

We also made announcements at the open house as well as Wahbah's all but begging people to not screw up the event.

NO one person can police a whole event worth of people...but we did everything we could up to and including providing a party with secure parking for those that drank too much and had many threads up with phone numbers for designated divers.yes i saw that and comend those that did partake one both sides of it. and would urge that similar thing be availibre at other funtions were pre/post parties are at.

If you can think of something else constructive that we can do to stop these idiots then myself and many others are all ears.
If you want to imply that we turn a blind eye and do nothing....then you obviously know NOTHING about what we tried to do this weekend.

do i know what you did @ TS or security measure that were taken place no i wasnt there. do i understand how to do similar stuff yes. "marked" and "un marked" works very well IF you have the foot people. but thats $$$$$

every time i have hit a super chevy show, or similar events security/staff is very present.. problem with that is you need feet beating the ground.

 

[Idaho CTD]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, maybe not on this site but on any Dodge site, but here is my take on the progression of our sport/hobby/business. The big companies in sled pulling and some of the top drag racers are doing nothing to help the childish behavior. The younger crowd sees the sled pullers and some of the drag racers smoking like crazy and they think it is cool. Anyone new to the sport that sees this thinks that is the only way to make power. Then they want their truck to smoke like that. In the mid western and southern states the smoke might be ok at the race tracks but I know most of the tracks around here wont put up with it. I know smoking people out around town was only one of the problems at TS but it is a big problem for diesels in general.

As much as I don't like to say it, Banks is the only big company that is being proactive about the smoke issue. The way I see it the huge sled pulling companies are actually hindering the progression of the sport. The rules are written to favor/keep the p-pump at the top of the game. Many of the pulling organization outlaw dual cp3's despite the fact two cp3's still don't outflow a p-pump. It's not even close. They know that the common rail trucks will eventually out perform the old technology and it can be done without smoke. When I see people build new trucks like the TS truck and Mecham's truck I cringe watching them go down the track. It's a proven way to make power but it's not very progressive for the sport. If I built a truck that smoked like the top 12v trucks I know our track wouldn't allow me to run it for very long before I'd be told not to bring it back. It has to be something most if not all of the tracks across the country are thinking about but they put up with it because the trucks bring additional fans. I have no doubt all the tracks will eventually become more like ours. It's nice to see NADM start a clean diesel class. It would be nice to see all the organizations would head this direction. We are a small fish in a big pond of other racers. The other racers have more pull then we do, as a whole, so we better do our best to get along with them.

This is just my opinion on one step to curbing the childish behavior.

 

[ripmf666]

Exactly & I just pm'd somebody about Smokin asking if they are watching this? Some good may come out of this with future events

I know that the last 2 years that we have went all has been well.But half of us are up all night around a big fire lol.I hope to make it this year.

 

[whitetrash21]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, maybe not on this site but on any Dodge site, but here is my take on the progression of our sport/hobby/business. The big companies in sled pulling and some of the top drag racers are doing nothing to help the childish behavior. The younger crowd sees the sled pullers and some of the drag racers smoking like crazy and they think it is cool. Anyone new to the sport that sees this thinks that is the only way to make power. Then they want their truck to smoke like that. In the mid western and southern states the smoke might be ok at the race tracks but I know most of the tracks around here wont put up with it. I know smoking people out around town was only one of the problems at TS but it is a big problem for diesels in general.

As much as I don't like to say it, Banks is the only big company that is being proactive about the smoke issue. The way I see it the huge sled pulling companies are actually hindering the progression of the sport. The rules are written to favor/keep the p-pump at the top of the game. Many of the pulling organization outlaw dual cp3's despite the fact two cp3's still don't outflow a p-pump. It's not even close. They know that the common rail trucks will eventually out perform the old technology and it can be done without smoke. When I see people build new trucks like the TS truck and Mecham's truck I cringe watching them go down the track. It's a proven way to make power but it's not very progressive for the sport. If I built a truck that smoked like the top 12v trucks I know our track wouldn't allow me to run it for very long before I'd be told not to bring it back. It has to be something most if not all of the tracks across the country are thinking about but they put up with it because the trucks bring additional fans. I have no doubt all the tracks will eventually become more like ours. It's nice to see NADM start a clean diesel class. It would be nice to see all the organizations would head this direction. We are a small fish in a big pond of other racers. The other racers have more pull then we do, as a whole, so we better do our best to get along with them.

This is just my opinion on one step to curbing the childish behavior.

:thumb:

 

[ripmf666]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, maybe not on this site but on any Dodge site, but here is my take on the progression of our sport/hobby/business. The big companies in sled pulling and some of the top drag racers are doing nothing to help the childish behavior. The younger crowd sees the sled pullers and some of the drag racers smoking like crazy and they think it is cool. Anyone new to the sport that sees this thinks that is the only way to make power. Then they want their truck to smoke like that. In the mid western and southern states the smoke might be ok at the race tracks but I know most of the tracks around here wont put up with it. I know smoking people out around town was only one of the problems at TS but it is a big problem for diesels in general.

As much as I don't like to say it, Banks is the only big company that is being proactive about the smoke issue. The way I see it the huge sled pulling companies are actually hindering the progression of the sport. The rules are written to favor/keep the p-pump at the top of the game. Many of the pulling organization outlaw dual cp3's despite the fact two cp3's still don't outflow a p-pump. It's not even close. They know that the common rail trucks will eventually out perform the old technology and it can be done without smoke. When I see people build new trucks like the TS truck and Mecham's truck I cringe watching them go down the track. It's a proven way to make power but it's not very progressive for the sport. If I built a truck that smoked like the top 12v trucks I know our track wouldn't allow me to run it for very long before I'd be told not to bring it back. It has to be something most if not all of the tracks across the country are thinking about but they put up with it because the trucks bring additional fans. I have no doubt all the tracks will eventually become more like ours. It's nice to see NADM start a clean diesel class. It would be nice to see all the organizations would head this direction. We are a small fish in a big pond of other racers. The other racers have more pull then we do, as a whole, so we better do our best to get along with them.

This is just my opinion on one step to curbing the childish behavior.

Very good post Nathan

 

[mytmousemalibu]

As much as I LOVE coal!, Nathans right! Its sinking our own ship.

You know, the more and more we see fast and faster trucks coming of age, the more prevalent were seein the big numbers put down with low smoke output! A light haze seems to be the sweet spot! I remember reading a statment from Banks a while ago about ideal diesel air/fuel ratio. Diesels start to produce visible smoke @ 18:1 A/F ratio but optimum A/F is 16:1...............There ya go, light haze

 

[TheBac]

Hmm..I always wondered what the A/F ratio of a diesel was. Thanks M3.

 

[SmokeShow]

just a complete and utter disaster all around IMO. Scheid should never run a sled pull again and I doubt Beech Bend will ever host a diesel event like this again and rightfully so. Just a big freakin mess and I really don't think most of it was TS's fault but they (their event, not necessarily their business) are taking shots square on the chin from this one. Actually feel kinda bad for them.

Scheid and their minion running the pulls are a JOKE and suffer from SEVERE cranial rectal syndrome.

 

[McRat]

It really doesn't matter who was running the event. It's especially sad since the TS crew are well liked, and problems are already being rationalized.

Some guy posted it was trucks with Banks stickers; just to shift blame I suppose. Why am I not surprised?

A very popular opinion on this is:

Nothing can be done, or should be done. It was just fate and an act of God. This happens at all events, and the organizers are powerless to do anything about it.

Now I'm thinking the best thing to do with this is to sweep it under the rug and remove any references to it. Most diesel racing events AREN'T like that, but good behavior never draws the attention that bad behaviour does.

Many seem to be highly worried that there will be no more TS events. Wake up folks. That's the least of your worries. Beech Bend is now just another track that thinks diesel racers are idiots. And the list is growing. No tracks, no racing. There are far more diesel shops than dragstrips out there. Diesel shops can be replaced way easier than dragstrips can.

Someone posted "The track officials say the diesel people are worse than the Harley bikers." Probably because the Harley bikers learned long ago that if you cause trouble, businesses don't want you around. Time for us to learn that same lesson.

 

[05' Ditry Duramax]

just a complete and utter disaster all around IMO. Scheid should never run a sled pull again and I doubt Beech Bend will ever host a diesel event like this again and rightfully so. Just a big freakin mess and I really don't think most of it was TS's fault but they (their event, not necessarily their business) are taking shots square on the chin from this one. Actually feel kinda bad for them.

Scheid and their minion running the pulls are a JOKE and suffer from SEVERE cranial rectal syndrome.

I was told that it took 4-5 guys to tech 1 truck. They started teching trucks at 2 pm and then at 2 am there was still over 100 trucks that needed to be teched. Some guys didn't even get to pull.

 

[05_LLY]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, maybe not on this site but on any Dodge site, but here is my take on the progression of our sport/hobby/business. The big companies in sled pulling and some of the top drag racers are doing nothing to help the childish behavior. The younger crowd sees the sled pullers and some of the drag racers smoking like crazy and they think it is cool. Anyone new to the sport that sees this thinks that is the only way to make power. Then they want their truck to smoke like that. In the mid western and southern states the smoke might be ok at the race tracks but I know most of the tracks around here wont put up with it. I know smoking people out around town was only one of the problems at TS but it is a big problem for diesels in general.

As much as I don't like to say it, Banks is the only big company that is being proactive about the smoke issue. The way I see it the huge sled pulling companies are actually hindering the progression of the sport. The rules are written to favor/keep the p-pump at the top of the game. Many of the pulling organization outlaw dual cp3's despite the fact two cp3's still don't outflow a p-pump. It's not even close. They know that the common rail trucks will eventually out perform the old technology and it can be done without smoke. When I see people build new trucks like the TS truck and Mecham's truck I cringe watching them go down the track. It's a proven way to make power but it's not very progressive for the sport. If I built a truck that smoked like the top 12v trucks I know our track wouldn't allow me to run it for very long before I'd be told not to bring it back. It has to be something most if not all of the tracks across the country are thinking about but they put up with it because the trucks bring additional fans. I have no doubt all the tracks will eventually become more like ours. It's nice to see NADM start a clean diesel class. It would be nice to see all the organizations would head this direction. We are a small fish in a big pond of other racers. The other racers have more pull then we do, as a whole, so we better do our best to get along with them.

This is just my opinion on one step to curbing the childish behavior.

I agree with you 110% Nathan, Nice post!!

 

[05_LLY]

THe stuff at the drag track put a major downturn on the whole weekend, but the way the EVERYTHING at the fairground was handled ruined the pulls, Just the way the pulls were handled made it seem like this was a first year event, even if 200+ trucks wernt expected it shouldent matter, you should run a pull the same wether there are 5 or 500 trucks, all the screw off time by the track crew should not have been!!

 

[05smoker]

A lot of people don't even go to the races/pulls but just for the hotel and street extracirriculars. Don't get me wrong, I love smoke, I love beer and I love having fun with other diesel nuts but I have grown up and realize that I'm watching the sport I love die. I'd rather be at a hotel away from it like Indy a few years back so my family didn't have to be near it and my truck was never around a bunch of drunk douches. I may skip SDX this year because of all of this.

Great post Nathan. I laugh everytime I talk to a Dodge owner that has a 12v or 24v with a stock charger and 150hp sticks. Not that we don't have some d-bag Dmax owners, but I think we are in the minority when it comes to blowing smoke all across town.

I do like the ocassional burnout but they are out in farm country and we're not endangering anyone around us.

 

[JOHNBOY]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, maybe not on this site but on any Dodge site, but here is my take on the progression of our sport/hobby/business. The big companies in sled pulling and some of the top drag racers are doing nothing to help the childish behavior. The younger crowd sees the sled pullers and some of the drag racers smoking like crazy and they think it is cool. Anyone new to the sport that sees this thinks that is the only way to make power. Then they want their truck to smoke like that. In the mid western and southern states the smoke might be ok at the race tracks but I know most of the tracks around here wont put up with it. I know smoking people out around town was only one of the problems at TS but it is a big problem for diesels in general.

As much as I don't like to say it, Banks is the only big company that is being proactive about the smoke issue. The way I see it the huge sled pulling companies are actually hindering the progression of the sport. The rules are written to favor/keep the p-pump at the top of the game. Many of the pulling organization outlaw dual cp3's despite the fact two cp3's still don't outflow a p-pump. It's not even close. They know that the common rail trucks will eventually out perform the old technology and it can be done without smoke. When I see people build new trucks like the TS truck and Mecham's truck I cringe watching them go down the track. It's a proven way to make power but it's not very progressive for the sport. If I built a truck that smoked like the top 12v trucks I know our track wouldn't allow me to run it for very long before I'd be told not to bring it back. It has to be something most if not all of the tracks across the country are thinking about but they put up with it because the trucks bring additional fans. I have no doubt all the tracks will eventually become more like ours. It's nice to see NADM start a clean diesel class. It would be nice to see all the organizations would head this direction. We are a small fish in a big pond of other racers. The other racers have more pull then we do, as a whole, so we better do our best to get along with them.

This is just my opinion on one step to curbing the childish behavior.

Well said Nathan. I totally agree with this from a Drag racing stand point and a street stand point. I think that a low to not smoke rule for drag racing is a good thing and can be done. For pulling I am not sure it can be done. With pulling classes setup the way they are. Basicly by turbo size I see no way around it. I know what Gale Banks say about being smoke being wasted power but I call BS. To get rid of the smoke you need and AFR of over 20. That does not make the power that and AFR of 16 does. Yes it smokes but it makes more power. A lot more power. I dont have a problem with my truck smoking the way it does. But it is not a street truck. My street truck is cleaner running than it was stock. FWIW turbo gasser smoke to. My old GN would puff black on WOT shifts with an AFR of low 11s. Most max effort turbo gassers a least haze.

 

[z79outlaw]

As much as some of you may hate it and hate admitting it, but diesels wouldnt be where they are now if they didnt smoke, thats my opinion, Alky pulling tractors vs diesel theres no comparson, noone gets into or likes watching alky tractors pull. Most spectors dont want to watch gas trucks pull vs Diesel trucks pull because of the smoke factor.

Mechams truck is just as impressive to me as max'd out or any other truck running those times, it has just as much ingenuity if not more when you consider the head work on it. To knock a truck because it isnt a common rail and tuned on a computer to me is just stupid, it'll be a sad day in Diesel performance when 1 guys 10 second run is less impressive than the next guys because of his smoke level or the fact that he may not have a common rail. But whatever, different strokes for different folks I guess. I may be biased because I feel the P-pump is a better way for building a competition truck and I grew up in the midwest. Others may be the opposite way, but I dont think either way is hindering our sport or giving us a bad name.

Like I said in another post Diesels will always be a problem with bad image because there cheap, plentiful, and it doesnt take much to have more than enough power to get into trouble with. Nothing is going push us towards a better image than making the diesel sport unaffordable, no matter what we do were always going to have nit-wits crossing the line. Banks IMO does just as much to hurt this sport as they do to promote it so I disagree as well with your statment that there doing any good.

Flame away...

 

[bonescarolfi]

I don't think its the smoke in general that people don't like its the fact that some people feel the need to drive through town blowing smoke over everything every chance they get. If you wanna blow smoke do it on a back road somewhere where there aren't any people and no other drivers to irritate or hit. Same thing with burnouts. Basically be smart about it and respect other people.

 

[Idaho CTD]

I realize limiting the classes by turbo size will create a overfueled situation. You can make additional power by overfueling the truck. That's pretty much a given. In the top classes that run unlimited turbo's they should be trying to clean their act up IMO. The 12v guys already have the rpm's the CR Dodge's can't touch and most Duramaxes don't spin that high either so why limit them to one pump? IMO they are scared the CR trucks will stomp the hell out of the 12v's and it will make them catch up with the times or get left behind. It's their bread and butter so they don't want lose out. I really don't think the top pullers can clean up their trucks despite unlimited charger size. The injection quality is so poor trying to shove that much fuel into the cylinders with archaic injection pumps. I think they'd be surprised at what the CR trucks are capable of if they would put the effort into them because I think the supporting mods (more rpms, better programming, etc.) would follow the demand. It's definately a bad example on the drag strip though.

 

[JOHNBOY]

I am in an unlimited single class. To be competitive with the GT4202 I have it smokes. If I can get others thing straightened out I really want to go to a HX60 and Air to Water intercooler. I bet I can bring it down to just a haze with that setup and be competitve. The other issue with no smoke is and pulling is that alot of peoplr assume your spraying because they dont understand HPCRs and AFRs.

I dont tune my truck to smoke. Spool and power are my concerns. The only time I ever look at my smoke is in vids and pics. I do agree with you Nathan, I just see it being an uphill battle pulling. And with a track only truck like mine I dont really see the need. But it makes good sense in a street class for sure.

 

[McRat]

As much as some of you may hate it and hate admitting it, but diesels wouldnt be where they are now if they didnt smoke, thats my opinion, Alky pulling tractors vs diesel theres no comparson, noone gets into or likes watching alky tractors pull. Most spectors dont want to watch gas trucks pull vs Diesel trucks pull because of the smoke factor.

Mechams truck is just as impressive to me as max'd out or any other truck running those times, it has just as much ingenuity if not more when you consider the head work on it. To knock a truck because it isnt a common rail and tuned on a computer to me is just stupid, it'll be a sad day in Diesel performance when 1 guys 10 second run is less impressive than the next guys because of his smoke level or the fact that he may not have a common rail. But whatever, different strokes for different folks I guess. I may be biased because I feel the P-pump is a better way for building a competition truck and I grew up in the midwest. Others may be the opposite way, but I dont think either way is hindering our sport or giving us a bad name.

Like I said in another post Diesels will always be a problem with bad image because there cheap, plentiful, and it doesnt take much to have more than enough power to get into trouble with. Nothing is going push us towards a better image than making the diesel sport unaffordable, no matter what we do were always going to have nit-wits crossing the line. Banks IMO does just as much to hurt this sport as they do to promote it so I disagree as well with your statment that there doing any good.

Flame away...

You aren't alone in your way of thinking, and matter-of-fact, until very recently (3 days ago) the general concensus on CompD was Smoke Is Good.

But in the next few years you are going to be given a choice: Keep it clean, or retire. Since diesel events attract diesel pickups, you can't separate the racers from the spectators. If the spectators become a nuisance, they will crack down on them, and the events will vanish. Performance shops cannot survive selling just to race-only trucks, so the performance market will dry up as well.

Here's your wakeup call:

They broadcast on the Bowling Green? radio station for the listeners to drive very cautiously since there are people blacking out many intersections so you can't see the stoplights.

Holy smokes. Any of you "smokers" willing to go to jail for vehicular homicide because you blinded the safety measures at an intersection deliberately?

I doubt it. I think you'd scream UNFAIR!!! I WAS DOING NOTHING DANGEROUS!! THEY DIED BECAUSE THEY SHOULDN'T DRIVE WHEN I'M TRYING TO SMOKE THE PLACE OUT!!

Playtime is over. You exceeded the boundaries, and brought it into endangering the public. Those who deliberately smoke out public roads at diesel events need to be gotten rid of at all costs. Take their trucks, and sell them. Donate the money to charity. Better them than us.

 

[z79outlaw]

I think they'd be surprised at what the CR trucks are capable of if they would put the effort into them because I think the supporting mods (more rpms, better programming, etc.) would follow the demand.

I think we all know even the big P pump guys know that CR technology is advancing and possibly someday it'll be on the same level as these "archaic" inline pumps, but you might be able to argue the point that they can compete, but what alot of Duramax guys forget is you cant compete with the P-pump when it comes to cost. I was thinking about this the other day, one of the reason diesel motorsports are so great is that anyone can compete, whether you have a daily driver or a dedicated rig. Some guys have big sponsors but alot of other trucks are home built with private funds, we dont all have Banks deep pockets to run CR's at 5500 rpms or the money to sink into R&D or trial and error, if that was the way it was going we'd just make a spectator sport out of it instead of somthing we all can take a shot at and actually compete in. Whether your just the average blue collar guy making $70k a year, small busisness owning making $150K or some big diesel shop with deep pockets. Even if the CR ever eclipse's the P-pump's performance I doubt it will ever be able to compete with it price wise, even when the demand for it comes in.


BTW NADM and big org's allow 2 CP3's in 2.6" and up.