what engine oil should i use?

[BowtieClub]

Just run standard RotellaT. You don't need the T6 synthetic unless you've got a 6.0 and a dead FICM...... which nobody has!

IMO, an oil analysis is good like once or twice a year to check on the bearings. Just do standard oil changes the rest of the year.

 

[Combine Pilot]

I use John Deere 15w40 :thumb:

 

[Gone Nomad]

I run a K&P serviceable lifetime oil filter that uses a surgical steel grade mesh filter media that traps contaminants down to 12 micron absolute, and down to a possible 6 micron. It out flows the stock stock paper filter's potential at only 1psi
http://www.kandpengineering.com

Nice set up.

I agree with this comment:
"Beware of some of the other "studies" you may find on the internet where they cut apart some oil filters and make a bunch of assumptions based on what they see inside. Appearances can be deceiving."
...but I wish their link (www.oilfilterstudy.com) to something better actually worked. Even the google cached version isn't useful.

There's no way I would run 25k on an oil change, even with the best oil in the world, oil analysis isn't enough for me, I still have a hard time believing that new oil will break down an engine faster, wtf, that doesn't even make sense

Yeah, you're preaching to the choir there.

If you search on recent posts by "dnewton3" you can see his arguments, which IIRC had something to do with the more highly concentrated additive package in new oil being responsible for greater wear. He also says the DMax is not hard on oil, and that synthetic does not reduce cold start wear, and that DMax UOAs almost always produce about the same results no matter what oil is used (which if true suggests to me that UOA is a waste of money, considering the cost of 10 quarts of oil). And that's why traditionally/normally UOA is only done on engines that hold a lot more oil. It's mainly the "enthusiast" segment is doing UOAs on small engines like a DMax, not fleet operators. Cheaper and easier to just change it more often.

 

[bigjohn]

I've been runnin amsoil for two years and change it every ten.

 

[DIESELMAFIAPER.LB7]

how many miles are you going between full changes...??

with the AMSoil 15w-40 HD you can run 25,000 mile plus. basics is a filter change at 12,000 to 15,000 miles and a full oil and filter change at the 25,000 mark. if ou were to do a $10; or less; oil analysis you may even be able to run farther than the 25,000 mile mark.

there are quite a few big truck fleets and individuals doing just this and are well out over 45,000 miles with just filter changes and analysis. the oil test also gives you a look inside the motor to "see" what is happening in terms of wear to bearing, injectors, rings, head gaskets, oil pump, oil cooler, cam.......

ya oil samples don't show the truth in my findings I don't care what oil you run 4k miles is the limit and if your doing no highway driving 2500 miles 40 bucks in oil is a lot cheaper then 10k on rebuild

 

[hondarider552]

Picking a oil is like picking a condom...

 

[Turbo Performance]

ya oil samples don't show the truth in my findings I don't care what oil you run 4k miles is the limit and if your doing no highway driving 2500 miles 40 bucks in oil is a lot cheaper then 10k on rebuild

Care to elaborate on how oil samples don't tell the truth in your experience?

 

[gmduramax]

Picking a oil is like picking a condom...

:rofl:

What kind of condom should I use?

 

[DIESELMAFIAPER.LB7]

Care to elaborate on how oil samples don't tell the truth in your experience?

two dmaxs I tore down both guys ran amsoil both went 25k on changes and when I took them apart they had 1/2" of sludge everywhere and the bearings were pretty sad in one the other I just did headgaskets on so couldn't say miles were around 110k on one lb7 and 170k lly on the other I showed them how they looked and they said there samples were fine and showed nothing wrong. my engine and zero sludge at 200k running normal oil and 3000k change intervals.

I don't care what oil it is they cant go 25k miles on it I would bet the engine looks like ass inside going 10k could they be lying bout samples maybe but going long times on oil changes is dumb to me and every time I tear one down that goes that far they look like ass inside regardless of oil used

I guess I should have said samples don't always tell the truth

 

[LtEng5]

175,000 miles - broken piston is the reason for tear down. started using AMSOIL at around 30,000 miles. Did the 25k full oil change with only a filter change between 12k and 15k. EGR blocker installed and PCV re-routed to open air around 20,000 miles.

One of the reasons that Dino oil builds sludge is from the waxes and fats in the base product. There are none of these products in full synthetic oils.

 

[OregonDMAX]

Picking a oil is like picking a condom...

So running with no oil is like asking for a baby...I mean blown motor

175,000 miles - broken piston is the reason for tear down. started using AMSOIL at around 30,000 miles. Did the 25k full oil change with only a filter change between 12k and 15k. EGR blocker installed and PCV re-routed to open air around 20,000 miles.

One of the reasons that Dino oil builds sludge is from the waxes and fats in the base product. There are none of these products in full synthetic oils.

That Dino oil (delo400) you speak of at 3k intervals in my motor looks 10x better that the inside of that motor and still running, so what's your point

 

[mike diesel]

two dmaxs I tore down both guys ran amsoil both went 25k on changes and when I took them apart they had 1/2" of sludge everywhere and the bearings were pretty sad in one the other I just did headgaskets on so couldn't say miles were around 110k on one lb7 and 170k lly on the other I showed them how they looked and they said there samples were fine and showed nothing wrong. my engine and zero sludge at 200k running normal oil and 3000k change intervals.

I don't care what oil it is they cant go 25k miles on it I would bet the engine looks like ass inside going 10k could they be lying bout samples maybe but going long times on oil changes is dumb to me and every time I tear one down that goes that far they look like ass inside regardless of oil used

I guess I should have said samples don't always tell the truth

I'm right there with you. I've torn down Deutz diesel engines in water pumps, generators and ditch witches all that did the "extended oil change intervals"...These engines run non stop for 12+ hours a day so you would think a longer interval would be ok. I've literally scooped jello out of oil pans. Bearings fused to cranks and pistons becoming conjoined twins with the cylinder.

 

[DIESELMAFIAPER.LB7]

175,000 miles - broken piston is the reason for tear down. started using AMSOIL at around 30,000 miles. Did the 25k full oil change with only a filter change between 12k and 15k. EGR blocker installed and PCV re-routed to open air around 20,000 miles.

One of the reasons that Dino oil builds sludge is from the waxes and fats in the base product. There are none of these products in full synthetic oils.

bearings looked pretty worn on the cam how'd the rest look... also amosil makes sludge all oil does that I've seen in my experience

 

[Gone Nomad]

I'm right there with you. I've torn down Deutz diesel engines in water pumps, generators and ditch witches all that did the "extended oil change intervals"...These engines run non stop for 12+ hours a day so you would think a longer interval would be ok. I've literally scooped jello out of oil pans. Bearings fused to cranks and pistons becoming conjoined twins with the cylinder.

That's one of my points about oil analysis not telling the whole story. It shows some of what's in the oil, but doesn't show what's going on in the filter, and it doesn't show what may be building up in the nooks & crannies of the engine.

 

[JoshH]

I tore my dad's motor apart last summer when he lost a piston. It was a ~240k mile LMM that had been run on a 500ish HP tune for a big majority of it's life and had the oil changed only when the DIC said it was due and usually at least a few hundred miles after it said it was due. That engine looked perfect inside (other than the piston). All the bearings were in very good shape and there was no sludgey build up anywhere. FWIW, he ran Rotella 15w40, but I think any quality oil would yield the same results.

 

[LtEng5]

That Dino oil (delo400) you speak of at 3k intervals in my motor looks 10x better that the inside of that motor and still running, so what's your point

How do you know its cleaner than this engine if its still together in one piece and never been opened..??....

For a everyday daily driver that hauled heavy trailers for almost a year straight and wasnt shut down for over 3 weeks due to subzero temps during some the runs. This engine is CLEAN. The builder/engineer that took the engine apart was happy to see it this clean. Now from someone who wrenches on circle track and drag motors that are torn down after 1 or 2 races to say an engine is clean after seeing how clean an engine is after 1 race.....Yeah...this engine is a mess

bearings looked pretty worn on the cam how'd the rest look... also amosil makes sludge all oil does that I've seen in my experience

the cam bearings were actually in good shape. no scores or thin areas. IIRC they measured just under GM install spec. And I mean like 0.0002" and we figured between differences in measure tools and basic wear; they are considered to be with in spec. The rod bearings had very good wear marks all around with no base layers showing thru any where. There were 2 pistons that had some flattening of the top of the bearing at the long section of the rod. One was the broken piston and the other was the one on the same journal. Al the main bearings were in excellent shape. no scores, wipe marks, or flattening. the thrust bearings had minimal wear on the front side and no wear back side.

The cylinder bores had excellent cross hatch markings and no deformations or ridging. The cylinders have gotten a quick hone on a Sunnen Machine; just to give the new rings something to bit into.

Yes, even a full synthetic oil can "make" sludge. The sludge is coming from the fuel being used and getting past the rings during normal operation. no engine any where in the world that does not have blow by. even rotary engines. the synthetic base product does not contribute to the sludge as does the base products of dino oil.



Any one that saw this motor coming apart during tear down was happy to see how clean it was. no sludge or goo in any corners of the lifter boxes or in the bottom of the oil pan.....even in the forward hump of the lower pan.



One thing that nobody looks at for a sludge contributor is the air filter and intake track. Cheap air filters and dirty air filters allow dirt to pas thru the intake and these particle can and will get past into the oil system.

Did the engine have a lot of cold starts; with a short run trip where the engine and oil did not get to operating temps. This is also a good contributor to sludge building up. The oil doesnt get hot enough to loosen the dirt and liquify the waxes and be able to wash then down into the filter and lower pan areas.

Engine oil has cloud points and cold flow points that it needs to met for a specific grade and application. Just like diesel fuel has these same points it needs to meet to operate correctly. So if an oil doesnt get to operating temps between starts and stops; sludge can and will be formed.


These pics and many others were sent off to the AMSOIL Corp. thru the owners up line dealers and the AMSOIL engineers were happy with everything they saw. They were excited to see that the cylinders were in "perfect" condition and the "lack of sludge and build up" with in may areas of the engine.

 

[OregonDMAX]

How do you know its cleaner than this engine if its still together in one piece and never been opened..??....

Cheap air filters and dirty air filters allow dirt to pas thru the intake and these particle can and will get past into the oil system.

Did the engine have a lot of cold starts; with a short run trip where the engine and oil did not get to operating temps. This is also a good contributor to sludge building up. The oil doesnt get hot enough to loosen the dirt and liquify the waxes and be able to wash then down into the filter and lower pan areas.

Engine oil has cloud points and cold flow points that it needs to met for a specific grade and application. Just like diesel fuel has these same points it needs to meet to operate correctly. So if an oil doesnt get to operating temps between starts and stops; sludge can and will be formed.

Had to do an oil pan gasket so I looked around crank area. Pretty damn clean.

I use Napa paper filters in a stock airbox and change it twice a year.

My truck runs almost all city with short warmups (5-10 mins) and reached op temp by the time I get to my destination. And most of it is in 40* or below for 8 months of the year and 90-100* the other 4 months.

every motor is different, ambient temperature plays a huge part as well as emissions or not.

 

[Magnus]

Me three.

There's a guy who lurks on DP and also BITOG who swears that "oil is oil" and his analyses show that wear increases when the oil is changed (IOW, according to his highly scientific testing and beyond reproach expertise, there is less wear with used oil than new oil, up to a point that is a lot more miles than most people would ever go). I almost think he'd put in the used stuff from an oil change shop if the oil analysis looked OK.

I think that an oil analysis is incomplete if it doesn't include what's in the filter media, but that is normally never tested.

As for me, I use the $12/gal. Delo or Delvac from WalMart and change when the DIC says it needs it. I use Bosch Premium or Purolator PureOne filters.

Dnewton pretty much thinks he can predict your engine wear, read your fortune, and predict the stock market for the next quarter based on your oil analyses, though from what I can tell he doesn't actually have ANY formal education in the field he claims to be the expert in... An oil analysis can only really show you how well the oil itself is holding up according to chemical and physical metrics, and maybe give you a warning if something in your engine wear is way off from the norm. Lets just say there's a reason I'm a member here and NOT over there.

The only way to actually tell how an oil helps or hurts engine wear is with a tear down and inspection... The guys who abuse these engines and tear down a lot (sled pullers, serious racers, shop owners) seem to run Schaeffers quite a bit. I found a local dealer and scored it in bulk for about the same cost as any other off the shelf oil, and my engine starts quicker, idles smoother, and gets about .4mpg better mileage on Schaeffers than any other oil I've tested so far even though i ran it first in my experiments while the engine wasn't even nearly broken in.

I haven't run an oil analysis because my engine just crossed 30k before I left the country so wear metals are likely not stable and repeatable, and as stated above I believe it reflects the durability of the oil, not the engine... but I am actually an unbiased chemical engineer not employed by any of these companies and so far I've run 8 different oils and out of those I plan to run Schaeffers for life even though its a bit less convenient to buy.

That said the dmax is definitely easy on oil and any off the shelf oil changed when the DIC hits 0% will give you long engine life. Right now my truck is with my dad away from my schaeffers stash so its running Rotella T6 in the sump (my personal second choice, and numer one choice for my motorcycle) but Delo syn, Delo 400, and the John Deere oils (blended by Chevron) are solid choices in my experience also.

Don't be an idiot and throw away money every 2500 miles unless you've got a true race engine and you flog it really ridiculously hard (I mean like... One of the 50 fastes, lots of passes or hooks per season). Even in that case you'd probably be doing an engine teardown every season anyways, so just run it from the end of a break in until the next teardown. Modern oils and modern engine oiling systems are radically different than they were in the old muscle car days when you really did have to follow the 3k mile drain intervals. Modern oils don't shear like they used to, and modern engines have incredibly effective oil films over every wear surface.

 

[durallymax]

Delo 400LE changed 7500-10,000. Good stuff.

You only really need synthetic if you operate in extreme temps. Good Dino oils like Delo are fine on extended drains. They encourage 70,000 mile intervals on the semis.

Even at 15k on our LML is was doing pretty good.

Del vac is good too.

 

[Gone Nomad]

Dnewton pretty much thinks he can predict your engine wear, read your fortune, and predict the stock market for the next quarter based on your oil analyses, though from what I can tell he doesn't actually have ANY formal education in the field he claims to be the expert in...

Thanks for confirming what I suspected.

Lets just say there's a reason I'm a member here and NOT over there.

Yeah, there's definitely a gang of them over there who like to jump in to condemn anybody who posts anything they seem to think is encroaching upon their self-appointed "turf," something I was quickly reminded of when I posted this, which I intended to be simply for informational purposes (expecting normal responses like this). I didn't expect to be condemned for how I found the info (nice, huh? ) or become embroiled in an advocacy battle, and have Dnewton and his followers explain to me why I'm not competent enough to tell what time it is by looking at the clock (even though I somehow managed to earn a living as an engineer before DNewton was born). Given the nature of some of the people who hang out there, I should have known better. Some people visit forums to gain knowledge, others to practice their snappy smack-talk, and others to belong to a gang. Seems the last two often go hand in hand.

...The guys who abuse these engines and tear down a lot (sled pullers, serious racers, shop owners) seem to run Schaeffers quite a bit. I found a local dealer and scored it in bulk for about the same cost as any other off the shelf oil, and my engine starts quicker, idles smoother, and gets about .4mpg better mileage on Schaeffers than any other oil I've tested so far even though i ran it first in my experiments while the engine wasn't even nearly broken in...

I became more familiar with Schaeffer's products because they make a diesel fuel additive with bio-diesel in it that tested well for lubricity in the old DP fuel additive study. Schaeffer is one of a very few that publish more detailed specs on their products. Which Schaeffer oil are you using? There have quite a few different varieties, and even in the list here they go into some detail about the difference between them, more specifically than the usual marketing-driven hype that other oil brands typically provide. They have different oil formulations for more different applications (e.g.: one for engines running on "sour natural gas" and another for regular natural gas).

Which type of Schaeffer motor oil did you buy for use in your DMax?
And roughly how much did it cost?
...from which dealer?