Wastegated VGT

GeneralTJI

Turbo Todd
Jun 1, 2010
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Could you explain the advantages of having a wastegate on a VGT turbo? Is it because your running twins? I know nothing about VGT's i just always thought they were controlled by the ecm and that is why they didnt have wastegates

I can really see the need in a twin setup. Opening up the vanes only does so much... you can still overspin the turbo and create massive drive pressures with the vanes open and enough fuel. You could probably push a set of compounds a harder with a wastegate because you wouldn't be choking out the motor with the stock charger as bad.
 

x MadMAX DIESEL

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I'll be running a wastegate on my stock LLY turbo'd BOB WS puller this year :thumb: we drive the shit out of those chargers and need to dump some drive pressure.

Sweet I'm really thinking of trying it. If I had one laying around it would be on it in a second.

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x MadMAX DIESEL

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Talking about a wastegate, not a blowoff. The gasses coming out of the cylinders more than likely would stay the same. But if you lower pressure you'll always lower heat. So it might read alittle bit lower but doubt you'd notice. Really the actual egts don't matter its what that heat can hurt before hitting the exhaust. That's just the best way to measure cylinder heat.

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othrgrl

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Mar 10, 2008
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We have found that an LLY with a drop in BatMoWheel could use a gate for anything over 3400 RPM. Any compound kit that uses a VVT could use a gate to "get the small turbo out of the way" and let the big one do it's job. The VVT turbo's vanes moving is like changing the AR on the housing, but just like with any turbine the air all still has to go through the wheel to get out the exhaust. On the VVT trucks rather than use a small wheel and fairly tight but gated housing GM/garrett went with a bigger wheel and a housing that can basically adjust the AR from very tight to very loose. But they never planned on us pushing the stock turbo so far, spraying nitrous, or compounding off it.

An S366 with a 65mm turbine will have drive pressure issues no matter how loose the turbine housing is because the 65mm wheel just can't flow the air it needs to. Going to a bigger wheel will relieve drive pressure, or you can gate it off if you want the responsiveness of the small wheel and are willing to sacrifice top end power.
 

x MadMAX DIESEL

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Curious, whats the most boost you that have done this before have seen.. would going up past 35 with a gate work well, or would it still just run out of its map and start pushing hot air? 4500ish rpm make much of a difference on how much boost I can wish for, I'm wondering if I should start searching ebay for a cheap wastegate. I still have my lbz uppipe which would be easy to hook up the gate too. Hoping for a solid 600 horse out of my truck.
 

JoshH

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Curious, whats the most boost you that have done this before have seen.. would going up past 35 with a gate work well, or would it still just run out of its map and start pushing hot air? 4500ish rpm make much of a difference on how much boost I can wish for, I'm wondering if I should start searching ebay for a cheap wastegate. I still have my lbz uppipe which would be easy to hook up the gate too. Hoping for a solid 600 horse out of my truck.
I'm not a turbo expert by any means, but I don't see how a change on the exhaust side will change the compressor map.
 

GeneralTJI

Turbo Todd
Jun 1, 2010
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I'm not a turbo expert by any means, but I don't see how a change on the exhaust side will change the compressor map.

I know what your saying, and obviously it doesn't change the compressor map... but it may change where you are running in the compressor map. For instance, lets say you change something on the exhaust side that lowers drive pressure (larger wheel, housing, vane tuning, wastegate etc.)... this may allow the motor to move more airflow at the same boost pressure... now you are running in a different place on the map. You may be able to increase airflow by doing this. Or for another example... a Holset HE351 with the 60mm compressor is a bit lopsided. Good turbo, but the 9cm exhaust housing chokes it out a little... hard to actually reach the potential of the compressor... making an exhaust change could "unlock" a little more of it's map perhaps.

Just some thoughts on all this...
 

x MadMAX DIESEL

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Dec 30, 2008
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I know what your saying, and obviously it doesn't change the compressor map... but it may change where you are running in the compressor map. For instance, lets say you change something on the exhaust side that lowers drive pressure (larger wheel, housing, vane tuning, wastegate etc.)... this may allow the motor to move more airflow at the same boost pressure... now you are running in a different place on the map. You may be able to increase airflow by doing this. Or for another example... a Holset HE351 with the 60mm compressor is a bit lopsided. Good turbo, but the 9cm exhaust housing chokes it out a little... hard to actually reach the potential of the compressor... making an exhaust change could "unlock" a little more of it's map perhaps.

Just some thoughts on all this...

That's the thinking I have. I could be totally wrong but I am hoping it will move the map alittle to where we can gain abit more power.

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madmatt

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Curious, whats the most boost you that have done this before have seen.. would going up past 35 with a gate work well, or would it still just run out of its map and start pushing hot air? 4500ish rpm make much of a difference on how much boost I can wish for, I'm wondering if I should start searching ebay for a cheap wastegate. I still have my lbz uppipe which would be easy to hook up the gate too. Hoping for a solid 600 horse out of my truck.

oh you'll still be out of the map up in big boost but it's gonna lower drive pressure and hopefully let everything live a little longer.
 

GeneralTJI

Turbo Todd
Jun 1, 2010
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That's the thinking I have. I could be totally wrong but I am hoping it will move the map alittle to where we can gain abit more power.

I would think it's possible... I also noticed while working with vane positioning is that as I opened the vanes, drive pressure dropped, but so did boost. I felt more power on the butt dyno but at some point if you vent enough exhaust around the turbo, obviously boost will just drop and you won't gain anything.

Be interesting to see the results though :thumb:
 
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othrgrl

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Ben, you need to stop thinking about boost as power. Closing the vanes will give you more boost but drive pressure will rise exponentially when you get out of the turbo's effeciency range. Opening the vanes will lower drive pressure and bring the turbo back into it's effeciency range, it will also lower boost, but it will gain power.

Adding a wastegate would be to bleed off drive pressure when opening the vanes completely isn't enough, which if anything would also lower boost. We have an LLY with a stock charger that has done over 600 rwhp on 2 different dyno's including Dave Dunbar's - he is still in the mid to low 30s for boost. After swapping in a BatMoWheel he gained 32 peak hp (up to 636 rwhp) and put more power under the entire curve, all while running slightly less boost than what he did on the stock charger.

Power isn't about how much boost you have built up in the intercooler, it's about how much air you are moving through the motor. As drive pressure goes up the motor will be able to move less air, as the motor takes in less air more gets backed up between the turbo and motor (boost) but less power is produced.
 

x MadMAX DIESEL

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I have decided not to gate mine. Unless I start killing turbos. Drive pressure was the main reason I wanted to gate it but than was hoping I could raise boost, to the point where it was still mapped. I guess that was wishful thinking and I was wrong about it moving the map. I was searching something earlier today about maf, and found a thread from a few years ago about this same question. I will post the link here. Dustin I sent you an email earlier today btw
 

chevyburnout1

Fixing it till it breaks
Aug 25, 2008
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Has anyone ever driven their truck and manually commanded the vanes open and closed at cruising speed? You can actually feel the truck slow down at first when you go from fully open to fully closed vanes.

Just a simple example that popped in my head reading this.
 

SgtKilroy

'Merica!
Sep 30, 2009
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Resurrecting this thread for a question. Has anyone waste gated a 4094vvt? How are you running the waste gate? Off one up pipe only or are you tying into both?