Politics and EV's.

[McRat]

I seldom discuss politics on the board, but this is auto related.

Unless human civilization cuts off oil purchases from the Middle East, our kids or grandkids are most likely going to be fighting WWIII.

Ballastic missiles and nuclear warheads are insanely expensive weapons that only rich countries can afford. A small number of ICBM's cost what an aircraft carrier does.

Electric vehicles today aren't a lot of fun, and are very expensive. But that is changing. At some point EV's are going to be more fun and less expensive than petroleum vehicles.

We fire bombed cities in WWII and it did little to affect the enemy morale. When we cut off their oil, they had to switch to ethanol (food) to make synthetic fuel.

That had a huge effect on the morale of the enemy.

Starving people hate their government, not the "enemy".

Anything we can do to starve the OPEC countries will seriously hamper their weapons development, and make their own people hate them.

Biodiesel must be pushed, since it's a Today solution. But electric power must also be pushed since none of those countries produce significant amounts of automotive products.

Climbing off the soapbox.

 

[lts1ow]

Good luck with that, "diesel smells bad" "they rattle too much" "diesel makes a ton of smoke and that means they pollute a ton"

Constantly trying to argue/educate my mom, she is used to old diesel benz's and refuses to believe the new diesels are cleaner, more efficient, etc.

And the catch 22 to EV IMO is that, while sure, the individual consumer won't be using gas/fossil fuels but that power has to come from somewhere, so coal plants and oil fueled plants will be cranking up production. I dunno, just seems like robbing Peter to pay Paul, or however that phrase goes.

 

[McRat]

EV's are recharged at night, when we shut down large portions of the grid. We have enough overnight capacity to power millions of car rechargers.

Another point is under current technology, EV's are more efficient in the winter than summer. Batteries hold less power the hotter they get. So energy needs in the winter drop.

Yes, Washington DC needs to pull out all the stops to get diesel powered cars. Europe already knows this. If the US was 100% diesel, we would not import any oil except from Canada and Mexico. The US is still one of the largest oil producers. Natural gas > diesel needs to heavily pushed as well.

But if the cars were powered by electricity tomorrow, the middle east would return to the stone ages in less than a single generation. They have trouble feeding their people.

 

[lts1ow]

I guess, I remember reading an article about the current power infrastructure having a problem handling the additional loads if everyone drove an electric car that needed to be recharged every night. I'll try and find it.

And yea, as far as EV goes, more money really needs to be thrown at battery technology, they can make the things go fast as hell real quick, but can't make em last long yet. And until its public outcry for these things, no govt funding will go there, especially with big oil interests pushing these things down.

The chevy cruze is supposed to be coming out in 2013 with the diesel, I hope at least, if all my stars are aligned I may look into getting one pending payments/insurance, but would be a neat little highway/long drive cruiser.

The middle east can go **** themselves as far as I care, without oil, no one would give a rats ass about them, case in point.. Africa, no resources that the modern world wants, no modern world involvement. :rofl::rofl:

 

[GeneralTJI]

Natural gas > diesel needs to heavily pushed as well.

Agreed. We have a lot of natural gas here, it is an option...

 

[DIESELMAFIAPER.LB7]

Ya we have so much were just burning it come to north Dakota and see the thousands of wells just burning natural gas.... so pat are you saying shut power off to places at night to charge cars? And also what about range long road trips? Evs will not be worth a damn for range unless you spend alot of coin in batteries. Letting car companies have les regs would be the best start get the government put of alot of things would help. Drilling, exploration, emissions ect

By the way it pisses me off that i pay for natural gas when they burn so much off and waste it

 

[rms2012]

I would be willing to make some sacrifices for energy independence & clean air.

And, not even sure at this point . . . what they would be.

 

[KryPTiC]

Ya we have so much were just burning it come to north Dakota and see the thousands of wells just burning natural gas.... so pat are you saying shut power off to places at night to charge cars? And also what about range long road trips? Evs will not be worth a damn for range unless you spend alot of coin in batteries. Letting car companies have les regs would be the best start get the government put of alot of things would help. Drilling, exploration, emissions ect

By the way it pisses me off that i pay for natural gas when they burn so much off and waste it

I don't know about your wells down there, but there is no permanent flaring of Natural Gas in Alberta, generally flaring is done while the testing of the well is going on or before the pipeline is installed to transport it, also on the bigger plant sites, the flare is used for emergencies only.

Interesting thread, sorry to derail a bit.

 

[McRat]

Most power plants reduce output at night. Peak use is during the day.

Electricity can't be loaded on an Iranian supertanker. Let them eat oil if nobody buys it from them. Well, as soon as they put out the fires when we burn all their production facilities we built.

In particular, Iran's nuclear program will be halted if their oil sales is cut, or they let everyone starve. Either way is good.

90% of car drivers don't "love" cars. It could be powered by horse manure as far as they know. Hotrodding would not die, just your Prius would run off pure electricity or diesel hybrid.

We don't have to entirely quit petroleum. We just need to lower it enough to starve all the ME OPEC countries.

 

[DIESELMAFIAPER.LB7]

I don't know about your wells down there, but there is no permanent flaring of Natural Gas in Alberta, generally flaring is done while the testing of the well is going on or before the pipeline is installed to transport it, also on the bigger plant sites, the flare is used for emergencies only.

Interesting thread, sorry to derail a bit.

Here they have to constantly flare or they lose the well from the pressure of the natural gas

 

[Dirtymaxx03]

Why not put a hampering on OPEC by drilling within our borders and being self sufficient...

 

[McRat]

Why not put a hampering on OPEC by drilling within our borders and being self sufficient...

Absolutely. We need to halt ME OPEC oil sales, or drop it seriously. By any and all means possible. We need to starve them immediately.

 

[z79outlaw]

The infrastructure does not exist Pat especially in the summer I sacrifice my time all summer long as proof power plant do have a lot of capacity maybe they could support a mass move to electric vehicles I doubt it given the current administrations hatred of coal plants even so called clean coal many utilities would lo e to build new plants but aren't allowed to, remember the energy prices would necessarily skyrocket quote from Obama? Coal is cheap but if u can't burn it what does it matter there natural gas is relatively cheap but natural gas fired power plants aren't as effecient as coal plants and they surely do lead to hikes in home heating costs, electricity bill would also go up as electricity rates would go up.

Utilities don't have the local infrastructure especially in urban areas, in the summer usage goes up as people come home fire up there air conditioners and electronics many places still only have the infrastructure to support modern technology 1940s power poles with small transformers feeding 10 homes that at one time only had 50 amp services at the most now most have upgraded to at least 100 amp services. EVs may be the wave of the future but there not some consumers or the power grid support right now.

 

[PACougar]

Let's just finish purchasing the rest of OPEC's oil and then they won't have any more to sell Boom problem solved!

 

[leehype]

Ethenol and Biodiesel can be made from waste, every time you flush you could help make reneable fuel.

I don't like the EV idea. They cause more polution in the long run. Yes, they don't have CO2, but look at all the lead, acid, litium, and unobtainum that goes into the things.

One of the problems is Petrolium is used to make those cars. More oil get's used in all the plastic panels that fill those cars that we are stuck needing more and more oil.

My biggest issue is not with what we are doing, it is that I feel all the latest solutions are not only NOT fixing the problem they were supposed to, but creating a mess of new ones. Like the EV car thing. If we could build an EV car that you could crash into a river and not kill every animal down stream, I would be more inclined to accept them.

 

[McRat]

We can bomb them or starve them. In the long run, starving an enemy has always worked better.

 

[lts1ow]

I think the US of A has long been surpassed in biggest customer of middle east oil by China/India no? If so, good luck getting them to agree to stop buying

 

[McRat]

It's really hard to load a tanker that has been torpedoed...

 

[adeso]

don't think you want to start that.
People will be buying their oil until they have no more. I think the big thing is keeping the terrorist states to a minimum and keeping WMD out of the area. Not everyone over there hates us, but we start that and they will.

 

[jacobdewey]

Anyone ever done the research of what an EV cost per mile to drive VS. a fossil fuel? I bet you would be surprised how much EV's actually cost. Not that much different from a Volkwagon tdi that gets 50mpg.