June '24 Chat -- June bugs or Cicadas?

[DAVe3283]

If it's a R410a heat pump, they run 500+ PSI in heating mode, so I like to pressure test them to 550-600 PSI to find leaks. It could easily be a cracked line.

With the rate of leaking not being super different in heat mode vs cool mode, it's probably not the A coil. It sees low pressure in cool mode and high pressure in heat mode, and would lose more refrigerant when heating.

I like the balloon trick to check the valves, cool idea.

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[malibu795]

Thermal protector on the motor tripped, going to fab something to up better than this use some 3" exhaust pipe I got laying around and pull air through the motor

 

[kidturbo]

It’s probably a crack in the line going into the attic behind your insulation. Been there fought that, replaced system and kept old lines lost refrigerant in a week again.

Luckily furnace it's in the basement, and only 12ft of line to the compressor now. Was a 40 ft run. We pealed all the insulation off the lines thinking maybe there was a leaking joint hidden under it. Nothing..

Best I can tell, it has to be the A coil. Is only original piece left in the system, 30yrs old, and been soldered on once before. But the lack of florescent dye showing up has me thinking that it probably leaks until it drops low enough on 410A to freeze up, then when it thaws out, all the dye gets washed off with the ice. Only thing I can think of, because if it was leaking outside, the dye would easy to spot..

 

[2004LB7]

Well it runs and no magic smoke .
Haven't figured out what exactly the two LED lights indicate.. default settings seam to say it maxes out a 50hz., which would be the the top, Max's out at 49.88-49.95 ..
Is the bottom Amps? The motor maxes out at 5.6A at 220V
Now need to figure out how I want to cleanup the wires

And something shut the motor down, case temp was around 140° IDK if the thermal breaker on the motor tripped or the VFD?
View attachment 123939

3phase motors don't normally have thermal breakers in them but possible. 140° is not much. So maybe the VFD shut it down. What is your pulley ratio?

3rd light is to indicate what control is active. Remote or front panel. 5th light is is to indicate the display is showing Hz.

Make sure to set in the programming F0-00 to 1 for fan mode instead of constant torque mode.

Also you can adjust F0-10 for maximum frequency so you are not limited to the default 50Hz. Maybe try 120Hz to start with. May need to adjust F0-12 to match

F0-15 might help with motor heating but is normally only used for noise

You can play around woth F0-17 and F0-18 for acceleration and deceleration times. I'd start with 5 seconds and adjust from there. Too quick of decel can sometimes pop codes. Somewhere there might be a setting to coast down. I normally use that if available (F6-10 to 1)

Make sure F1-01 matches your motor kw or more if you want to overdrive the motor power. Some motors have a service factor of 1.15% or 1.25% of the nominal rating


F1-02 should match the motor voltage rating. Likely 208v

F1-03 should match the motor amp rating. Adjust up for service factor

F1-04 put 60hz here if not already

F1-37 you might want to try out #12 and take the belt off during tuning

 

[malibu795]

3phase motors don't normally have thermal breakers in them but possible. 140° is not much. So maybe the VFD shut it down. What is your pulley ratio?

3rd light is to indicate what control is active. Remote or front panel. 5th light is is to indicate the display is showing Hz.

Make sure to set in the programming F0-00 to 1 for fan mode instead of constant torque mode.

Also you can adjust F0-10 for maximum frequency so you are not limited to the default 50Hz. Maybe try 120Hz to start with. May need to adjust F0-12 to match

F0-15 might help with motor heating but is normally only used for noise

You can play around woth F0-17 and F0-18 for acceleration and deceleration times. I'd start with 5 seconds and adjust from there. Too quick of decel can sometimes pop codes. Somewhere there might be a setting to coast down. I normally use that if available (F6-10 to 1)

Make sure F1-01 matches your motor kw or more if you want to overdrive the motor power. Some motors have a service factor of 1.15% or 1.25% of the nominal rating


F1-02 should match the motor voltage rating. Likely 208v

F1-03 should match the motor amp rating. Adjust up for service factor

F1-04 put 60hz here if not already

F1-37 you might want to try out #12 and take the belt off during tuning

I'll definitely play around with the programing.
Motor has 3.125/5.75 pulleys 1.84:1

That info sheads a lot of light in said room

 

[68ss]

Just finished installing some wire for a mini split a/c in the bedroom. I’ve is tired of hot flashes. Lol

 

[TheBac]

I could sure use some HVAC help for the house.

 

[malibu795]

I could sure use some HVAC help for the house.

What's going on with it?

 

[PureHybrid]

3phase motors don't normally have thermal breakers in them but possible. 140° is not much. So maybe the VFD shut it down. What is your pulley ratio?

3rd light is to indicate what control is active. Remote or front panel. 5th light is is to indicate the display is showing Hz.

Make sure to set in the programming F0-00 to 1 for fan mode instead of constant torque mode.

Also you can adjust F0-10 for maximum frequency so you are not limited to the default 50Hz. Maybe try 120Hz to start with. May need to adjust F0-12 to match

F0-15 might help with motor heating but is normally only used for noise

You can play around woth F0-17 and F0-18 for acceleration and deceleration times. I'd start with 5 seconds and adjust from there. Too quick of decel can sometimes pop codes. Somewhere there might be a setting to coast down. I normally use that if available (F6-10 to 1)

Make sure F1-01 matches your motor kw or more if you want to overdrive the motor power. Some motors have a service factor of 1.15% or 1.25% of the nominal rating


F1-02 should match the motor voltage rating. Likely 208v

F1-03 should match the motor amp rating. Adjust up for service factor

F1-04 put 60hz here if not already

F1-37 you might want to try out #12 and take the belt off during tuning

And now I'm dizzy

 

[DAVe3283]

Mini splits are a game changer. Put them in my parent's house a couple years back, and liked them so much I just put 5 of them in my house. One in every bedroom, plus the bonus room and the garage. I still have the central HVAC but really only use it to heat now (natural gas is dirt cheap in Idaho) and circulate/filter the air once in a while.

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[2004LB7]

Mini splits are a game changer. Put them in my parent's house a couple years back, and liked them so much I just put 5 of them in my house. One in every bedroom, plus the bonus room and the garage. I still have the central HVAC but really only use it to heat now (natural gas is dirt cheap in Idaho) and circulate/filter the air once in a while.

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I put mini splits in mine too. One in each bedroom and one in the living room. I can run them 24/7 for the same cost I ran the old one for only a few hours a day.



I also used a ceiling cassette in the living room to make it more seamless and not have that big box hanging off the wall

 

[malibu795]

The big problem I've seen with HVAC is heat transfers into the ductwork especially on longer runs..and inefficiency of ductwork air flow especially in old systems which mini splits eliminated both those problems.
Also lack of insulation as well.

 

[TheBac]

What's going on with it?

Sorry, was at Ikea all day today with wife. If you can believe it, I actually had fun.

Old forced-air furnace/AC is approaching 30 yrs old. Still work fine, but I want to get ahead of it. Got a quote for a new furnace from the HVAC company Ive had servicing my existing for the past 10+ yrs, but they didnt include new central AC, instead quoting for a mini-split system. I dont know diddly about mini-splits. They quoted 60,000 btu variable Amana furnace for our 1200sq ft home. My brother GAVE me a new-ish never used 3 ton central AC unit, too.

The wrench I threw into their calculations is that wife and I are planning a 500sq ft addition onto the east side of the house in the next few years. Im just wondering about it, is all.

 

[malibu795]

60k sounds small for a furnace especially in central MI, most the places I've been in run 90-115k. Here in SW Ohio. All sub 1800sqfr homes.
If the house is extremely efficient on insulation I can see it being enough.

The house I took over when Grandma died originally was just diesel fired forced air, they taped into the ductwork and threw an evap down stream of the furnace. Had a 3ton on/off AC unit for early 2000s it was very well insulated (spray foam wasn't mainstream yet)
Between argon filled windows and well insulated walls/roof it would hold 65° inside when it was upper 90° outside on a 50-60% duty cycle

 

[TheBac]

Thats kinda what Im afraid of. Going to get another quote here in a couple weeks.

 

[malibu795]

Winters have been rather warm last 4-5 years. Looking a 100 year graphs it's cyclic, also seams like every 4-5 years we get "artic vortex's" that pushes temps well into -20s, definitely wishing you had gone bigger, If you don't.

 

[DAVe3283]

60k (5 tons) does seem a bit small for the low ambient you see out there. You should be able to put your house details into an online calculator and see what you need based on the insulation you have.

I always tend to over provision my HVAC, but it actually reduces the efficiency when it is under light loads, like spring and fall. So don't just blindly install as much capacity as you can afford. It'll be a better experience if you're in the ballpark of the correct size vs. like 2x what you need for example.

When I installed the mini splits, I needed a 2nd attic access, so I moved my central HVAC air return. It originally had 45' of R5 insulated duct going through the attic. I simply moved the return to the other side of the living room, which appears to have had no effect on air balance throughout the house, and is now 15' of R8 insulated duct. That change alone should pay for itself in 1 summer. No idea why they originally routed it the way they did, so stupid.

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[malibu795]

The Biggest problem we have in the Midwest is humidity compared to Idaho. Generally we see 8-10 weeks where lows are 75-85° at night and days are 90-100°. 3 ton is generally the avg size for AC in the area.

Michigan can see 40-60 days easy below freezing and winds off the lakes and canady aren't to be taken lightly..

60k BTU furnace is on the small side for a 1200sqft, especially if planning to adding another ~500sqft. Personally want at least 80k BTU probably max id go is 115-120k pending efficiency rating for a furnace

 

[TheBac]

They are quoting me the Amana 97% efficient so to qualify for rebates and tax incentives.

AMVM970603BN Amana AMVM97 Modulating variable speed gas furnaces provide
exceptional indoor comfort and the best in modulating furnace
efficiency. This quiet furnace delivers variable heat output at up
to 98% AFUE and qualifies for the federal tax credit and all utility
rebates for furnace upgrades available.
Stainless Steel Tubular Heat Exchanger
Stainless Steel Secondary Heat Exchanger
Efficient and quiet variable speed airflow system gently
speeds up and down according to heating or cooling
demand
Auto Comfort and Enhanced dehumidification modes are
available
1.00 $3,302.00 $3,302.00

 

[PureHybrid]

I would probably move up to 80k like Adam said. Ours is 80k and just over 1900sqft, does fine and it's an older low efficiency LPG.

Tom, I'm assuming a single story house?