Buyer Beware - Performance or Per4mance Innovations

othrgrl

Diesel Addiction Owner
Mar 10, 2008
2,149
2
38
Wilmington NC
www.mydieseladdiction.com
I know there have been some threads about this shop already but wanted to further warn people that are looking to have their transmission built or buy a complete transmission. I had a customer that gave me a deposit on a trans build but then "couldn't afford" to have his transmission built by me, so he picked up his SunCoast GMax-6-3 kit and Precision Industries converter from me and had it all installed in his LMM by Per4mance Innovations. After the break in period he brought the truck back to me to have his tuning upgraded to all out race tuning I told him things didn't feel right - some shifts were harsh, some flared horribly, downshifts felt like you were getting rear-ended. He drove it anyway and in less than a month was limping the built transmission. He had an intake, exhaust, lift pump, shimmed FPRV, and tuning on an otherwise stock LMM and was running tuning that has dynoed 550+ rwhp on LMMs with similar mods. As time went on it got worse and worse and the owner of Per4mance Innovations stopped answering his phone calls and wouldn't correct the transmission issues, so he broke down and brought it to me to clean up their mess. Upon teardown I found the following discrepancies:

  • C4 clearances were over .030" too loose (looser than the top of the range that SunCoast recommends).
  • C3 apply piston was torn during installation and applying the C3 clutched crooked and not fully applying them
  • C3 clutches were all warped from being improperly applied
  • C2 clearances were over .015" too loose
  • C1 clearances were over .025" too loose
  • Main pressure regulator spring wasn't properly shimmed - builder had replaced the correct .136" shim with an improperly fitting .102" shim, meaning lower line pressure
  • Valve body separator plate was improperly drilled - one hole was drilled to less than 1/8", while the other was 9/64" (both should be 1/8"). This may seem like a small difference but is actually a 26% increase in flow through the larger hole.

Here are pictures of the torn C3 apply piston and separator plate:
TornC3applypiston.jpg

Separatorplate.jpg


Just the labor here brought him up to what it would have cost him to have me build it right (and stand behind it). Then tack on the parts that had to be replaced (C3 apply piston, C3 clutches, separator plate), machining to get proper clearance, fluids, filters, and his bill at Per4mance Innovations and he is way over the price he "couldn't afford" in the first place. Moral of the story is that if you can't afford to have it done right the first time by a shop that knows what they are doing and stands behind their work, will you be able to afford to have it fixed?
 

duramaxdiesel

Dmax Nut
Oct 23, 2008
1,378
0
36
46
Montreal, Canada
The sad part is this happens all the time. The customer thinks they're saving a few hundred bucks but in the end it costs them more than double that to fix it right again.
 

GMC_2002_Dmax

The Still Master
The same thing happens in all aspects of the performance industry.

Sub-Standard Rods
Substandard TC's
Substandard machine work
Substandard engine/trans builds
Substandard tunes being written

The list goes on and on.

Usually it's the Johnny Come Lately's who get in after the established shops have been doing it for years and whore the whole market out with cheap prices and false giveaways and once the money is collected try and get any follow-up customer service.

The people who are cheap and buy from the whore's get what they deserve, they spend twice as much in the end and get that bad taste left in their mouth for being cheap and having to do it over and over and over all the while still trying to save a buck.

I have no sympathy for low-ballers and scumbags.

:eek:
 

othrgrl

Diesel Addiction Owner
Mar 10, 2008
2,149
2
38
Wilmington NC
www.mydieseladdiction.com
Would anyone here think that this is "defamation" or that the owner of Per4mance Innovations would have any kind of suit against me? The owner called me and said to take this post down (from DieselPlace) or he would get attorneys involved. I tried to ask him how it was slander if it was all true with pictures to back it up - he said that abuse tore the C3 piston... Abuse burned the clutches to the point that the piston was able to come all the way out then got cut when the spring plate pushed it back in. I'm unsure how you abuse a trans that's built to handle 900 rwhp with a truck that is only putting down around 550? And the C3s weren't badly burned, just warped from being applied crooked; in fact with them warped they took up all the clearance and were dragging, there is no way the C3 piston could move enough to come anywhere near coming out - the only way to get it to is to screw up worse than this truck already was and have about .400" too much clearance (not installing the thicker spring plate and/or leaving out clutches).

Called my attorney who said that as long as I am telling the truth and have proof and the owner of the truck to back it up it wouldn't go anywhere and that he would be surprised to see another attorney even take on a suit like that.
 

Mike L.

Got Sheep?
Staff member
Vendor/Sponsor
Aug 12, 2006
15,686
232
63
Fullerton CA
He can't touch you. Why doesn't he go to DP and either deny it or explane it? He has no problem going over there and pimping.
 

Kat

Wicked Witch of the West
Aug 2, 2006
17,899
13
38
59
Norco, CA
Called my attorney who said that as long as I am telling the truth and have proof and the owner of the truck to back it up it wouldn't go anywhere and that he would be surprised to see another attorney even take on a suit like that.

Internet and attorneys seldom go anywhere.
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
26
38
64
Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
Would anyone here think that this is "defamation" or that the owner of Per4mance Innovations would have any kind of suit against me? The owner called me and said to take this post down (from DieselPlace) or he would get attorneys involved. I tried to ask him how it was slander if it was all true with pictures to back it up - he said that abuse tore the C3 piston... Abuse burned the clutches to the point that the piston was able to come all the way out then got cut when the spring plate pushed it back in. I'm unsure how you abuse a trans that's built to handle 900 rwhp with a truck that is only putting down around 550? And the C3s weren't badly burned, just warped from being applied crooked; in fact with them warped they took up all the clearance and were dragging, there is no way the C3 piston could move enough to come anywhere near coming out - the only way to get it to is to screw up worse than this truck already was and have about .400" too much clearance (not installing the thicker spring plate and/or leaving out clutches).

Called my attorney who said that as long as I am telling the truth and have proof and the owner of the truck to back it up it wouldn't go anywhere and that he would be surprised to see another attorney even take on a suit like that.

99% of "I'm Internet Suing You" don't go anywhere. I know this from personal experience. :D
 

catmenace

Member
Jul 31, 2010
255
2
18
If the guy is defending himself and threatening rather than coming on with proper factual statements I say he and per4ormance has a real problem.
 

ChevyTruckGuy78

Twins done Now for trans
Feb 7, 2010
694
0
0
Ct.
thats why im looking for someone local to build my trans but not sure on who i need refrences of some good people i had talked with ben but havent heard from anyone on hos his builds are i just want someone good with good customer service so i dont have to worry about driving a diffrent veichle through there shop window im looking to get it built with in the next few months but wanna be sure im not gonna end up like this
 

duramaxdiesel

Dmax Nut
Oct 23, 2008
1,378
0
36
46
Montreal, Canada
Seems like he's a little worried lol. Everything that you are saying is fact and you have pictures to back it up.

Is this the same guy on eBay selling his "unlimited horsepower" TC?

Nick
 

McRat

Diesel Hotrodder
Aug 2, 2006
11,249
26
38
64
Norco CA
www.mcratracing.com
I'm letting this thread stand because it's an important "public service" announcement for the hotrodders here.

However, what I don't want is a lot of is "vendor A says vendor B sucks". That causes way more problems than it cures.

In the future, it's best for the actual enduser to post about negative experiences.

I'm not making a rule about this, and it will be decided on a case-by-case basis, but think about the correct way to present such data, and use good judgement. There is no guarantee that such threads will always be permitted.
 

BudTX

Edjumacated Redneck
Apr 8, 2007
182
0
0
MO
thats why im looking for someone local to build my trans but not sure on who i need refrences of some good people i had talked with ben but havent heard from anyone on hos his builds are i just want someone good with good customer service so i dont have to worry about driving a diffrent veichle through there shop window im looking to get it built with in the next few months but wanna be sure im not gonna end up like this


You are smart. Gathering firsthand references and not relying on internet chatter and advertising is the smart way to go.

I found that out the hard way. :(
 

juddski88

Freedom Diesel
Jul 1, 2008
4,651
116
63
Chesterfield, Mass.
It has taken 4 years and (luckily) buying stuff for someone else's truck and not my own to learn who is worth spending money with. Henry, Tony, Tony, Mike, George, and Ben all are on the tip of my tongue. It sucks to hear about people screwing people but each time it should remind each one of us, "I never want to be THAT GUY!!" :thumb:
 

duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
Aug 28, 2006
7,139
10
0
Wyoming
Wow. Pretty impressive the way C3 apply piston was installed. I dont even know how its possible to tear it that badly.

Dustin just out of curiosity what were the thicknesses of the C3 and C4 apply plates and backing plates in this trans??

How thick was the C1 backing plate? Was it .400"?