Alternator issue?

2004LB7

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GF's 2013 Mazda 3. This could possibly go in the spark plug section but it's really more about electrical and the charging system.

On the above car, GF said she had the battery replaced maybe 1.5 years ago. Over the last few months she's been experiencing a low battery no start. With engine running the alternator is only putting out about 13.8 volts. Amperage is about 15 amps into the battery and about 15 amps going to the rest of the vehicle shortly after starting. Doesn't change much when tuning on loads like head lights or AC. Little bit higher to account for the additional draw but no change in voltage or current into the battery

Too the car to AutoZone to see what their machine says. Battery checked out ok. Alternator, diodes ok, but reported bad regulator. Gave her a quote for a replacement costing nearly $300 and that was their budget item. They actually where nice and said they don't recommend getting the alternator through them as they are overpriced and Rock Auto or others can provide a replacement for about half the cost

Decided to try pick and pull for $35. What is the chance a car gets junked because a bad alternative. Found a nice alternator that looked clean and the vehicle had some body damage from a small collision. Installed the replacement used alternator and the voltage was exactly the same at 13.8. ????

Unplug the connector and voltage drops to 12.5v. plug it back in and goes up to 13.8v.

Online searing seems to indicate that this vehicle is supposed to have a current sensor on the negative battery post. But I don't see one. Apparently this behavior is an indication it's bad.

The other thing I will likely do is stick my scope on the control line and the feedback line to see if this replacement alternator is receiving and sending the correct signals. Supposedly PWM with duty cycle being the output of the alternator and the feedback being how much load the alternator is being subject too.

Anyone familiar with these Mazda alternator control schemes and what I should check next?
 

2004LB7

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Ok. I think I figured something out from the forums. The Mazda 3 typically has a flooded lead acid battery. This doesn't require as high of a voltage to drive current and charge the battery. But those who charge them put for AGM like she has needs to reprogram the BCM to accommodate the change. And it looks like Forscan can do this. And luckily I have one. Might just need to purchase a license or whatever they use for programming. Only used it for scanning so far.

I think I'll give this a try first and see how it goes
 

2004LB7

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Welp, not as great as I thought. There was no battery menu or any way to change the profile. But I did do a reset which I've read is supposed to be done when replacing the battery. Voltage now seems to be more steady around 14.2 volts. A little low for my liking but definitely better.

I do want to measure the current running into the battery vs what's running the loads to see if that's improved. And measure the battery resting voltage after sitting overnight to see if it's come up any. She will take it to work tomorrow and see if she needs a jump afterwards 🤞
 

2004LB7

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I not on the up and up with all vehicles, first time I've heard of needing to program the bcm for battery type
Looks like a ford, and possibly other, thing. Really only on newer vehicles that prioritize MPG. Apparently it's a strategy they are using now to have the ECM/PCM have more control over the alternator output so it can reduce the load on the engine and reduce stress on older batteries. It sounds like as the battery ages the PCM or possibly in this case the BCM will slowly reduce voltage to try and account for the age of the battery. If you just throw another battery at it without telling it the battery is new it will continue to use the old battery profile and the voltage gets worse

And if you change battery types, from say a flooded to AGM, there is a slight optimal voltage difference between them
12v-lead-acid-battery-voltage-chart.png
 

Ridin'GMC

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Interesting about the ecm has to be reset for the battery. My Cadillac ATS does the same thing as the Mazda operates. During the day with no lights on it'll operate at 12.2-12.5 volts until you hit the brakes and jump to roughly 13v then back to the same when the brakes are off. At night, it'll kick on to 13.5-14.5v depending on the load you have on running. Sometimes with the a/c on during the day, it'll hold 13.5v. It was strange at first to me thinking my alternator took a dump. Watching it closely as the lower voltage, I clearly could see an extra 1-2 mpg which was interesting to see at the least.

Does your battery have a fuse block on top of it? When mine went bad, it would have intermittent voltage spikes and sometimes get too low of a voltage of 11v. Replaced that and it gained 2 volts. The littlefuse mega multi fuse block junction on the battery side inside the plastic cover has a small break that would cause that issue.
 

2004LB7

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Interesting about the ecm has to be reset for the battery. My Cadillac ATS does the same thing as the Mazda operates. During the day with no lights on it'll operate at 12.2-12.5 volts until you hit the brakes and jump to roughly 13v then back to the same when the brakes are off. At night, it'll kick on to 13.5-14.5v depending on the load you have on running. Sometimes with the a/c on during the day, it'll hold 13.5v. It was strange at first to me thinking my alternator took a dump. Watching it closely as the lower voltage, I clearly could see an extra 1-2 mpg which was interesting to see at the least.

Does your battery have a fuse block on top of it? When mine went bad, it would have intermittent voltage spikes and sometimes get too low of a voltage of 11v. Replaced that and it gained 2 volts. The littlefuse mega multi fuse block junction on the battery side inside the plastic cover has a small break that would cause that issue.
It foes have a fuse block on the positive terminal. Alternator voltage reads the same on either side. About 0.2V higher right st the alternator due to voltage drop on the wires. Might upgrade them to a heavier gauge to gain a small boost
 

2004LB7

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My '14 Cruze has an amp clamp in the negative. I was seeing 12.6-12.8, disconnected it and it runs 13.8-14.2 now
I did read about some models having that current sensor on the negative terminal. This particular one doesn't have it. Would have been an easy solution if it did.

Right now it's just holding. Or at least it seems to be starting ok in the morning. This weekend when it sits for a day, I'll measure the battery voltage and see if it's charging properly