4.67 @ 164.71 1/8 mile Time slip .

[THEFERMANATOR]

Seems stupid. Why now start out with stuff that's proven to work and then try stuff from there?

If we all stuck to what was proven, where would we be right now. For diesels we would all be running around in 12 valve CUMMINS or 7.3L powerstrokes belching smoke. People made fun of the DURAMAX when it was introduced saying the aluminum heads would melt off, what did ISUZU know about building diesels(little did those idiots know ISUZU was one of the oldest manufacturers of diesel's out there), or it was a converted gas engine, and so on and so on. Yet it compeltely changed the game. If everybody thought inside the box or just stuck with what was proven, NOTHING new would ever be designed. Drag racing would still be a bunch of front engine rails burning the tires off for the 1st 1/8th mile, or mostly stock door cars running in the 10's. It can hurt to think outside of the box, and many times you get ridiculed as it doesn't always work, but every now and again you strike one out of the park and change the game forever. You don't know unless you try.

 

[CaptPhil]

I was more referring to his quality control issues. Melting a boost reference line on an up pipe, especially on a wide open engine, is pretty embarrassing. It just seems that hoagie has these sort of small problems constantly, which is why the rail has never made a full quarter hit or even back to back eighth passes.

I am all for innovation, but when it comes in lieu of a successful platform just so you can brag about being the first, then perhaps smaller steps should be taken.

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[Ne-max]

If we all stuck to what was proven, where would we be right now. For diesels we would all be running around in 12 valve CUMMINS or 7.3L powerstrokes belching smoke. People made fun of the DURAMAX when it was introduced saying the aluminum heads would melt off, what did ISUZU know about building diesels(little did those idiots know ISUZU was one of the oldest manufacturers of diesel's out there), or it was a converted gas engine, and so on and so on. Yet it compeltely changed the game. If everybody thought inside the box or just stuck with what was proven, NOTHING new would ever be designed. Drag racing would still be a bunch of front engine rails burning the tires off for the 1st 1/8th mile, or mostly stock door cars running in the 10's. It can hurt to think outside of the box, and many times you get ridiculed as it doesn't always work, but every now and again you strike one out of the park and change the game forever. You don't know unless you try.

I understand that but most stuff he's doing he is trying to reinvent the wheel. I haven't seen anything her that is considered a break through. To me stuff like the HSP front covers, wagler heads, AF cams, billet cranks are all more innovative then a belt drive cp3 and his computer.

 

[S Phinney]

I was more referring to his quality control issues. Melting a boost reference line on an up pipe, especially on a wide open engine, is pretty embarrassing. It just seems that hoagie has these sort of small problems constantly, which is why the rail has never made a full quarter hit or even back to back eighth passes.

I am all for innovation, but when it comes in lieu of a successful platform just so you can brag about being the first, then perhaps smaller steps should be taken.

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You can bet your assistance that every successful team out there has broken and destroyed most everything Greg has and then some. You don't hear them tell about it so everyone assumes they are on top of their game. That just isn't the case. I don't know Greg but I can say from the outside he is unorthodox ed on how he approaches things. He probably could be a lot less arrogant and that could gain him more respect.

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[GSXRTURBO1]

...He probably could be a lot less arrogant and that could gain him more respect.

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In my opinion that alone causes him more problems than all else combined

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

He probably could be a lot less arrogant and that could gain him more respect.

What he said. If he toned his attitude down some and humbled himself some, then I don't think there would be near the hostility towards him as there is now. He's trying things from a completely different approach than others are as he's trying to reach a different end goal. Many believe in baby steps, but he has taken the leaps and bounds approach. Don't think for a second that others haven't gone here before, and been ridiculed for it as well, UNTIL they figure it out. I still remember back to our 1st clutchless 5 speed we had in my dad's drag car. It was actually a richmond gear 5 speed converted over as a prototype back in the 80's, but it never took off because it kept breaking the dogs. We got it from the guy who was the tester for them. He also had a set of the 1st 18 degree BRODIX heads that guess what, never came to market because BRODIX couldn't get them to flow and run properly back early on. By the time they got the engine program figured out, others had come along, seen what they did, took those few extra steps to furthur them, and they took off. Without those early BRODIX prototypes 18 degree and less SBC heads may have never took off. They didn't work out, but were the stepping stones to what did work.

So many here make fun and ridicule comp for what he's doing, but his crazy ideas as many call them MAY just turn around and reinvent the wheel and be the next big step forward. If he could humble himself a bit(which he appears to have done since Mike L asked us all to lighten up on him the other night), things would be different. We could ALL benefit from his drastically different approach, but instead many here choose to sit back and make fun and ridicule him because he has taken such a different approach.

 

[Burn Down]

You can bet your assistance that every successful team out there has broken and destroyed most everything Greg has and then some. You don't hear them tell about it so everyone assumes they are on top of their game. That just isn't the case. I don't know Greg but I can say from the outside he is unorthodox ed on how he approaches things. He probably could be a lot less arrogant and that could gain him more respect.

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What he said. If he toned his attitude down some and humbled himself some, then I don't think there would be near the hostility towards him as there is now. He's trying things from a completely different approach than others are as he's trying to reach a different end goal. Many believe in baby steps, but he has taken the leaps and bounds approach. Don't think for a second that others haven't gone here before, and been ridiculed for it as well, UNTIL they figure it out. I still remember back to our 1st clutchless 5 speed we had in my dad's drag car. It was actually a richmond gear 5 speed converted over as a prototype back in the 80's, but it never took off because it kept breaking the dogs. We got it from the guy who was the tester for them. He also had a set of the 1st 18 degree BRODIX heads that guess what, never came to market because BRODIX couldn't get them to flow and run properly back early on. By the time they got the engine program figured out, others had come along, seen what they did, took those few extra steps to furthur them, and they took off. Without those early BRODIX prototypes 18 degree and less SBC heads may have never took off. They didn't work out, but were the stepping stones to what did work.

So many here make fun and ridicule comp for what he's doing, but his crazy ideas as many call them MAY just turn around and reinvent the wheel and be the next big step forward. If he could humble himself a bit(which he appears to have done since Mike L asked us all to lighten up on him the other night), things would be different. We could ALL benefit from his drastically different approach, but instead many here choose to sit back and make fun and ridicule him because he has taken such a different approach.

Spot on guys...

 

[GSXRTURBO1]

What he said. If he toned his attitude down some and humbled himself some, then I don't think there would be near the hostility towards him as there is now. He's trying things from a completely different approach than others are as he's trying to reach a different end goal. Many believe in baby steps, but he has taken the leaps and bounds approach. Don't think for a second that others haven't gone here before, and been ridiculed for it as well, UNTIL they figure it out. I still remember back to our 1st clutchless 5 speed we had in my dad's drag car. It was actually a richmond gear 5 speed converted over as a prototype back in the 80's, but it never took off because it kept breaking the dogs. We got it from the guy who was the tester for them. He also had a set of the 1st 18 degree BRODIX heads that guess what, never came to market because BRODIX couldn't get them to flow and run properly back early on. By the time they got the engine program figured out, others had come along, seen what they did, took those few extra steps to furthur them, and they took off. Without those early BRODIX prototypes 18 degree and less SBC heads may have never took off. They didn't work out, but were the stepping stones to what did work.

So many here make fun and ridicule comp for what he's doing, but his crazy ideas as many call them MAY just turn around and reinvent the wheel and be the next big step forward. If he could humble himself a bit(which he appears to have done since Mike L asked us all to lighten up on him the other night), things would be different. We could ALL benefit from his drastically different approach, but instead many here choose to sit back and make fun and ridicule him because he has taken such a different approach.

To funny, I just posted on a different topic with this in mind. Basically asked him why he doesn't take smaller steps and learn what the engine wants, not what he thinks it needs.

"Buick" small block heads :thumb:

 

[Dave c]

What has greg done that was not done before him, or that he didn't copy, and claim as his?

 

[Stingpuller]

Please explain the differences

Here is a time slip with the same (very close) 330' look at the 1/8 difference. Did you pull the chute skid the tires before the 1/8? If so your telling me you can run 5's. OK! When you run a full pass with numbers please let us all know. If you can run them numbers you wont have to talk about yourself! I will do it for you.

 

[COMP461]

we went testing last night , the track was just not there . We wound up putting our Top Sportsman Door car in to the wall, I put Mat Thomas of S&T waterjet behind the wheel. We are trying to get a 6 second pass on the board , the car has plenty of power , just learning to make the power curve get off the line. We can leave at a lower rpm , like a two step , and then ramp the power in as the track can take it .

 

[andy-stevenson]

Are you running an alternate firing camshaft or standard order?

 

[COMP461]

I do not believe in them , but I can grind them. The problem is not in the firing order , but the unsupported heavy counter weight ( harmonic Balancer) on the front . This Motor has a LB7 crank done from a raw crank Chevy sent me . This crank is destroked to 3.650 The cam is a 228 218 112

 

[LBZ]

I do not believe in them , but I can grind them. The problem is not in the firing order , but the unsupported heavy counter weight ( harmonic Balancer) on the front . This Motor has a LB7 crank done from a raw crank Chevy sent me . This crank is destroked to 3.650 The cam is a 228 218 112

I disagree. Partially.

For the ones that break behind #1 I'd blame balancing, added loads off the front end like dual triple cp3's, Supercharger's or the lack of bearing support.

But the others that break behind #4 as mine did I 100% believe it's harmonics. As per Fingers testing and findings. The AF alleviates alot of the harmonics. LS firing order is where it's at.

 

[Fingers]

FWIW, my only comments on the AF cam was based on back of the envelope numbers. I have done NO testing. The AFs do seem to run smoother if that is worth anything.

 

[Hot COCOAL]

I do not believe in them , but I can grind them. The problem is not in the firing order , but the unsupported heavy counter weight ( harmonic Balancer) on the front . This Motor has a LB7 crank done from a raw crank Chevy sent me . This crank is destroked to 3.650 The cam is a 228 218 112

destroked to turn higher RPM's, yeah?
the cam spec makes me chuckle a bit, cuz that seems crazy to me, as my NA 500chp LS2 used a bigger profile cam than that and still had great street manners w/a 3000rpm stall I'm not questioning a dang thing, just thought it was funny...yes I'm simple

 

[COMP461]

I took stroke out of it mainly to stabilize the rotating assembly . I knew that the Dragster would want higher rpms . Torque works in heavy trucks works ,but light weight dragsters need their hp dished out in a low torque dose.

I have bought around 10 core motors over the years, and I can see the wear pattern in the 1st main. so I believe that is the counter weight . as to the other mains . I saw a little flex in 3 and 4 , I believe that this is whip, indicated from the action on the front counter weight. Winburg sent me a crank for my new motor and its a neat piece. BBC rod journals and internally balanced 3.65 stroke. After all that it took to balance a stock shaft , the after market shaft is a buy.

 

[S Phinney]

destroked to turn higher RPM's, yeah?
the cam spec makes me chuckle a bit, cuz that seems crazy to me, as my NA 500chp LS2 used a bigger profile cam than that and still had great street manners w/a 3000rpm stall I'm not questioning a dang thing, just thought it was funny...yes I'm simple

That camshaft is fairly healthy for a diesel. Those usually are at .050 lift numbers for duration. That cam is good for his rpm range. I can assure you that your ls engine camshaft had good street manners because of the Lsa was up in the 116 to 119 ranges. Less overlap made it be able to work with the computer and fuel injection.

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[Hot COCOAL]

That camshaft is fairly healthy for a diesel. Those usually are at .050 lift numbers for duration. That cam is good for his rpm range. I can assure you that your ls engine camshaft had good street manners because of the Lsa was up in the 116 to 119 ranges. Less overlap made it be able to work with the computer and fuel injection.

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actually the LSA was 112+3* with 226/232 @ .050"


it sounded mean
this is a vid with the same cam, not my truck

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m1AKvhDxQMY

 

[COMP461]

There is a lot to cam profiles . The numbers at .050are just part of the story. I have a 210 degree @ .050 exhaust lobe that has the same .200 numbers as the 218 lobe. I use it where we are trying to fit a bigger cam in a tight clearance motor. The Duramax has considerable more rocker ratio on the exhaust then the intake. The correct Ratio is 1.34 Intake and 1.64 on the exhaust .

I hear a lot about LSA ( Lobe separation Angle ). This number and ILC ( Intake Lobe Center line) are number often used for the novice cam buyer to get an idea of the specs on a cam but really have no use to an advanced engine builder The only proper way to look at cam profiles , is to look at each events numbers individually . IE Open of exhaust , Close of Exhaust, Open of the Intake and close of the intake.

When you are chasing power, and doing engine development, you should only change one of those numbers at a time. For instance, if you have a small cam profile like a 205 210 110 installed in at 100 ILC that works well. This cam spools the chargers well, and runs good but will hit the wall around 4500 rpms. The smart move is to let the intake valve stay open longed to catch a little more air. This profile,closes the intake valve at 22.5 degrees ABDC meaning the pistons is 22.5 degrees coming back up the bore, lets add 10 more degrees. The intake is now closing at 32.5 degrees ABDC. This 10 degrees is a good amount , and will move the upper RPM up by about 500 rpms , It will starting getting a little softer around 2000 rpms , but not much. Nowthe ILC it has now changed to 105 and LSA has changed to 112.5 so the cam spec are now 215 210 112.5 installed in at 105 .

Why only changed one number. You have to make little steps , and keep an open mind I hear the Cummins guys say that only one LSA works in a Cummins 108 . This is just lack of real knowledge of how this all work. I some times believe that when you buy a Duramax its like changing from a blond to a brunette
I have done cams as big at 240 210 116 , these are extreme and will lose lots of power down low , but make incredible power in a narrow power band up high.

as in any part of a development program you will eventually grind a fence post , but you have to go there to know where the end is at. Then years latter like in the Pro Stock cams what we once thought was not right comes back around.

There are people that bolts parts in and expect to run as fast or make as much power as the guy that beats on his stuff and tinkers . You get power buy working on it .