My turn to crack a piston

[Stingpuller]

Good post Simon

The Mono's have not proven themselfs yet. I'm sure they will be the tits but nobody has run them yet. $4400 is a lot of jack. Why is everyone trying to reinvent the wheel? KISS has worked for me.

 

[TheBac]

No offense to him... But 1000 hp + ???

I've learned the hard way that you don't fix what will never work
Bandaids are meant to heal, stop hurting yourself and you don't need bandaids



Some people just don't get it!!

No one has even tried these pistons in a high hp applicAtion and yet you ask some one to try them? You know how much it cost to strip a motor and replace stuff??? I've been a guinee pig and it sucks and is not worth it!


I'm not by any means bashin fingers pistons.. But I've ran forged pistons and they work! I wouldn't recommend them if I didn't think they would. People that recommend something from a idea.... Well that's a different story

Sorry to sound bitter but to many people

Sorry, it was simply a suggestion. Wasnt sure if it would work or not.
But considering he got 4 freaking years out of a set of cut, uncoated, used CAST pistons @ 900-1000hp made me think it was a viable option.
I'd say he did one hell of a job building the motor and being smart on the tuning for it to live that long under those conditions.

Yes, I know what it takes to tear one of these motors down, and no, I really wouldnt want to do it again, but you do what you have to do.

 

[S Phinney]

I agree but after 1000hp it's the nature of the beast!

I'm willing to bet Kelly will not have to replace the rings before he has to tear down the motor for other reasons... Sadly

Why do monotherems help on bearing replacement Shane?

I think the whole forged and ring replacement is all a bunch of BS anyway jmho

Monotherms don't help any that I know of. I was simply referring to a previous post that was relative to cost on tear with out replacing major items. Those items are ones that I usually address and that's the usual cost associated with those parts.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[Fingers]

No offense to him... But 1000 hp + ???

I've learned the hard way that you don't fix what will never work
Bandaids are meant to heal, stop hurting yourself and you don't need bandaids



Some people just don't get it!!

No one has even tried these pistons in a high hp applicAtion and yet you ask some one to try them? You know how much it cost to strip a motor and replace stuff??? I've been a guinee pig and it sucks and is not worth it!


I'm not by any means bashin fingers pistons.. But I've ran forged pistons and they work! I wouldn't recommend them if I didn't think they would. People that recommend something from a idea.... Well that's a different story

Sorry to sound bitter but to many people

Lets be clear.

My pistons are already running in 1000+ HP engines. (3 at last count) All of the installs are shooting for 700 HP and better. One engine has a history of breaking everything that has been put in it. So far, all good.

I was waiting for some more passes with the drag truck application before posting much. I think that will be the toughest application. I want these suckers to prove themselves.

FWIW, I am confident enough now, that I am going to be stocking blanks in 0.020" over to improve the turn around on orders.

 

[TrentNell]

Lets be clear.

My pistons are already running in 1000+ HP engines. (3 at last count) All of the installs are shooting for 700 HP and better. One engine has a history of breaking everything that has been put in it. So far, all good.

I was waiting for some more passes with the drag truck application before posting much. I think that will be the toughest application. I want these suckers to prove themselves.

FWIW, I am confident enough now, that I am going to be stocking blanks in 0.020" over to improve the turn around on orders.

No offense intended here Jon , as I hope they pan out to be what a lot of us hope they are ( myself included ) , But until they have been in the trucks stated above for YEARS we wont know the real truth as to what they can take , but hope they work as expected , I have talked with Mark @ Danville , Evan, and a few other running them and so far only good feed back .

 

[sweetdiesel]

Lets be clear.

My pistons are already running in 1000+ HP engines. (3 at last count) All of the installs are shooting for 700 HP and better. One engine has a history of breaking everything that has been put in it. So far, all good.

I was waiting for some more passes with the drag truck application before posting much. I think that will be the toughest application. I want these suckers to prove themselves.

FWIW, I am confident enough now, that I am going to be stocking blanks in 0.020" over to improve the turn around on orders.

Yes, let's be clear

Out of the 3 trucks how long have they run them? How many passes?

What I said was is it bothers me that people would recommend something that has yet to be proven. Your piston haven't been proven and are still in test phase and will be for a long time. Are they so much cheaper that it would be worth taking a risk of cracked piston?

I think it's great that you have done what you have, but your pistons IMO are not going to withstand what a true forged will.

 

[Stingpuller]

Polish a turd

I agree God himself can polish a turd all he wants but it's still a turd. The cast piston can only handle so much and it's just beyond is limits. Jon's piston will fill the gap in a daily driver build but all out I would run a JE Ross or Arias. Do not run a high silicon piston in a high HP build. They will fail.

 

[JoshH]

I don't know how much bigbird drives his truck, but I just can't see running forged pistons in a truck that sees much street driving. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I seem to remember both Jeff and Simon pulling their motors apart for ring related issues on trucks that saw little to no street driving.

 

[Fingers]

My Pistons are also available in Forged.

The strength increase from cast to forged in a round bowl is less than the increase from round to oval. Just imagine a forged oval bowl piston.

I'll let those that run the pistons talk about them, if they want. Good or bad. I'm sure someone will find a way to break a set somewhere along the line.

Ross and Arias make a fine product.

Forged pistons have their own set of issues. It is far from a no brainer. If it were, everyone would run forged. Pistons are one of the many decisions a builder has to make on what is the best fit for the application.

Finally, I would like to know why you don't think my pistons will hold up? Do you know something I don't. It reminds me a lot of the arguments about aluminum heads. They'll warp and crack and so on and so forth. Your opinion is yours to share, and I'm sure you will, but I must take offense to you insinuating my product is shit.

I agree God himself can polish a turd all he wants but it's still a turd.

 

[Stingpuller]

Pistons

Jon i'm not saying your pistons wont hold up in a driver app. at all. I'm just saying if a guy want a 1000 hp build he should run a forged piston. I have never had issues with my pistons other than the first set the had the valve reliefs in the wrong place. As far as rings they will not last like a keystone ring but they will last a long time. They rings in my race motor have been in there from 2009! I just had the motor apart before I put it in the dragster and other than sleeving the block I reused the rings,bearings,rods,pistons everything but gaskets. Everyone needs to remember that when your building big power everything is a comprise!

 

[sweetdiesel]

I don't know how much bigbird drives his truck, but I just can't see running forged pistons in a truck that sees much street driving. I may be remembering incorrectly, but I seem to remember both Jeff and Simon pulling their motors apart for ring related issues on trucks that saw little to no street driving.

Josh I pulled the motor after compression was down, I thought the rings were bad..... Sadly it was down due to 8 bent rods. The rings were in pretty good shape still except the one that had a wrist pin come due to the bent rod

I replaced the ring when I rebuilt the new block.

 

[Rhall]

Has there been any back to back testing on what oval bowls and injector spray patterns do for power compared to the standard bowl?

 

[SmokeShow]

Yes, I'm curious if you (Jon) have been able to see efficiency (increase or decrease in ability to make power) changes with your in-cylinder pressure gauges? Results? Conclusion?


Did I just understand you correctly? You said the increase in strength of the piston going from round bowl to oval was GREATER than going from cast to forged material. For example (completely arbitrary numbers for discussion) - cast to forged is 15% increase in strength but round to oval bowl increase strength of piston 20%? Impressive! Even more so if the gases in the chamber can still make the power as efficiently with the oval bowl!!!

 

[mb1]

Stupid question but.... what's the normal colateral damage when a piston cracks?

 

[cafryer]

We have one in the shop with a hole in the piston and it has a big gouge in the cylinder. will see if it can be salvaged

 

[Fingers]

Yes, I'm curious if you (Jon) have been able to see efficiency (increase or decrease in ability to make power) changes with your in-cylinder pressure gauges? Results? Conclusion?


Did I just understand you correctly? You said the increase in strength of the piston going from round bowl to oval was GREATER than going from cast to forged material. For example (completely arbitrary numbers for discussion) - cast to forged is 15% increase in strength but round to oval bowl increase strength of piston 20%? Impressive! Even more so if the gases in the chamber can still make the power as efficiently with the oval bowl!!!

I have not found anything one way or the other about efficiency. The engine exhaust note does sound different, but I really don't know why. Nothing noteworthy on the pressure maps, but I haven't look at them much with the oval chambers.

And yes, you understood correctly on strength.

 

[bigbird]

Here's what it looks like. Very little damage, can't visibly see it.

 

[Fingers]

Has there been any back to back testing on what oval bowls and injector spray patterns do for power compared to the standard bowl?

Pure back to back is difficult and has not been done. (piston swap only) They have performed, as expected, in all applications so far. The short distance on the bowl is the same as stock and the long is about 30% further. More air time before hitting the piston in that direction.

 

[Fingers]

Jon i'm not saying your pistons wont hold up in a driver app. at all. I'm just saying if a guy want a 1000 hp build he should run a forged piston. I have never had issues with my pistons other than the first set the had the valve reliefs in the wrong place. As far as rings they will not last like a keystone ring but they will last a long time. They rings in my race motor have been in there from 2009! I just had the motor apart before I put it in the dragster and other than sleeving the block I reused the rings,bearings,rods,pistons everything but gaskets. Everyone needs to remember that when your building big power everything is a comprise!

I'll ask again. Why won't mine hold up under big power?

 

[dordtrecht5]

I'll ask again. Why won't mine hold up under big power?

Brother, it is IMO that there isn't a single person on this site that can honestly answer that question with certainty. Not taking anything from anybody posting, but speculation is speculation and the question won't be answered until proof in the pudding shows the results. Either way, just saying.


I like tacos.