lb7 to lbz conversion.... problem

[two_five_n_blue]

im a new member here, i had this posted on the duramax forum and was told to move it here soooo here it is...

okay so i have a 2003 lb7 ccsb 4x4 and a 2006 lbz motor ecm, tcm, harness, and we (me and Chris Bibby @ C and P equipment) are swapping my engines it started out slow but now we have the harness and motor in the truck but i have heard two different stories and need to know which will work if either (one has too)

option #1
Talked with a guy named Jeff @ Fleece performance as far as what i needed to get the tranny and computers to talk... i have a built 5speed and didnt want to loose it so they recommended a 6speed valve body and the internal neutral safty switch so the tcm would plug directly in... and to wire the harness at the fuse box> i.e. take the pin out scematics for both trucks and make the LBZ harness match the LB7 harness so theoretically everything would work.... question is will it???? i have had a battle getting the data on the pin outs and still havent gotten one that is correct have tried alldata online and a disc from gmc and chevrolet dealers and neither would match the original or the 06 harness so i cant swap the pins

option #2
i was back and forth with the gmc dealership they couldnt believe neither there alldata online or ther gmc information would work but it wouldnt so it talked one of there techs in the back he told me what i was trying to do would never work with out the U-BEC (fusebox and dash harness) he said because my 2003 is a low speed comp system and the lbz uses a high speed but i have both the lbz ecm and tcm and harness sooo whats so different about the 2003 interior vs. the 06 or even the 2007 classic truck.... i dont know which rout to follow?????

any help or insight will be appriciated i know that im in over my head but this can be done im just over my budget and this swap is about to kill me,,, im not going to just give up cuz id have to start over again with a different motor......... plz

hope this is in the right spot.

 

[Cougar281]

The electical systems in our trucks changed for the 2003MY and remained mostly unchanged until the GMT900's. The only change to the trucks in 06 was the addition of GMLAN under the hood and to the DLC for programming.

In order to swap the LBZ into your LB7, you'll need a LBZ accelerator pedal and harness. You have the main harness, TCM, ECM and I'd assume GPCM. You'll also need to do something about the intake. The LBZ's intake comes up from the CAC to the engine in front of the right head. The LB7 & LLY is down on the side of the head.

You'll also need to repin C100 under the fusebox to add the tapshift wire and GMLAN. I found the TCM power wire was in a different place on the 06 harness so I moved it to the same place as on the 04 harness.

You will need to get and swap in a 2006 6-speed valve body, harness and NSBU.

I'm swapping a LBZ into my 04 LLY and should have it running in the next day or two. Weather wasn't too friendly this weekend . If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them. I MIGHT have pinouts for your 03 if you need them.

 

[two_five_n_blue]

yes to the pin outs i CAN NOT find accurate pinouts anywhere.... but im not 100% sure exactly what your saying about the GPCM??? as far doing something about the intake i am unsure of also... i do have a complete LBZ motor am i missing something elso from the intake??? I do have the 6spd valve body and harness and a 2006 truck harness that connects the trans and engine to the ecm and tcm and in the fuse box... are u saying i only need to modify block C1 at the bottom of the fuse box? and if i add the tapshift wire do i have to have a "tapshift shifter"... sorry if im q's are a little much but i feel like we r really close and we have come to a halt and are not sure which rout to take i would prefer to do the harness pinouts cuz i have everything you mintioned except maybe the GPCM (im not sure what that is) and the gas pedal i dont have....

 

[two_five_n_blue]

bump
anybody else have some imput????

 

[Cougar281]

yes to the pin outs i CAN NOT find accurate pinouts anywhere.... but im not 100% sure exactly what your saying about the GPCM??? as far doing something about the intake i am unsure of also... i do have a complete LBZ motor am i missing something elso from the intake??? I do have the 6spd valve body and harness and a 2006 truck harness that connects the trans and engine to the ecm and tcm and in the fuse box... are u saying i only need to modify block C1 at the bottom of the fuse box? and if i add the tapshift wire do i have to have a "tapshift shifter"... sorry if im q's are a little much but i feel like we r really close and we have come to a halt and are not sure which rout to take i would prefer to do the harness pinouts cuz i have everything you mintioned except maybe the GPCM (im not sure what that is) and the gas pedal i dont have....

That and the C100 should be it. In order to have the tap-shift work, you'd need the 06 shift lever and the 2006 cluster in order to see the gear display. If you don't installt the tap shift, you will get a DTC, possibly a CEL due to the open circuit. The Glow Plug Control Module would be needed (I assume you have it).

The passenger side CAC tubing is different between the LB7/LLY & LBZ. I can't really explain it other than how I already have, but you can't just plug the LBZ intake & tubing into a LB7/LLY CAC. I think it can be made to work, but I'm not going that route so I'm not sure how.

 

[two_five_n_blue]

I have efi so i can fix the cel untill i get a 06 dash and shifter im hopeing we can get it running by the end of the week.
I Think we can get the CAC to hook up...... how did you get your pin out information i guess that and the pedal is all that is keeping us held up... Really we wanted to have it ready last friday but cant get the correct pin outs, the wiring is what has us held up...

oh and i think the obd2 port under the dash is diff. are u having to add wires (2 i think)??

 

[Cougar281]

Yes, you need to add wires at position 6 & 14 for GMLAN, and they should be twisted together from the DLC to C100.

 

[two_five_n_blue]

Thank you for your help we just went through the harness one last time.... but there wasnt much differance on the 06 vs. the 03 harness or atleast not near as many as we thought there would be..... ill have to check and see if i can figure out where the obd2 wires go though.... but those pinouts helped soooo much i wonder why all of the othere ones we had where so diff

 

[duratothemax]

I have efi so i can fix the cel untill i get a 06 dash and shifter im hopeing we can get it running by the end of the week.
I Think we can get the CAC to hook up...... how did you get your pin out information i guess that and the pedal is all that is keeping us held up... Really we wanted to have it ready last friday but cant get the correct pin outs, the wiring is what has us held up...

oh and i think the obd2 port under the dash is diff. are u having to add wires (2 i think)??

no you cant because that DTC that will set is in the TCM. EFILive cant change any DTC reporting in the TCM operating system....it can only change DTC reporting in the ECM...

Ben

 

[two_five_n_blue]

but it will just be the cel light... im working on getting the new 4 pin shifter and a gauge cluster but we want the truck to run first and foremost..... would it matter if that DTC code is on?

 

[Cougar281]

but it will just be the cel light... im working on getting the new 4 pin shifter and a gauge cluster but we want the truck to run first and foremost..... would it matter if that DTC code is on?

Probably not. I'm not even sure if it would set a CEL or just store a code in the TCM.

I'm kinda in the same boat as you as far as wanting to get my truck running... Hit a problem with the lower radiator hose and the water pump inlet...

 

[Mike L.]

but it will just be the cel light... im working on getting the new 4 pin shifter and a gauge cluster but we want the truck to run first and foremost..... would it matter if that DTC code is on?

I bet the engine will run rough with that DTC in the TCM and the Alli will shift like crap. However it will still work as far as driving.

 

[two_five_n_blue]

well i was gonna get it later on down the road... so i just went ahead and got it now the 4pin shifter, the pedal and throttle position sensor will be here in the morning we need to find where the wires go from the obd2 to the fuse block for the GMLAN and we are gonna try to power it up and see if everything will power up then finish the engine plumbling... im really hoping it all powers up and doesnt fry anything.... soo naturally im extatic about it :happy2:

 

[youngone]

well i was gonna get it later on down the road... so i just went ahead and got it now the 4pin shifter, the pedal and throttle position sensor will be here in the morning we need to find where the wires go from the obd2 to the fuse block for the GMLAN and we are gonna try to power it up and see if everything will power up then finish the engine plumbling... im really hoping it all powers up and doesnt fry anything.... soo naturally im extatic about it :happy2:

Well im sure glad youre getting the info here.
Good luck sounds like a intersting project.:thumb:

 

[two_five_n_blue]

yeah i had noclue what i was getting myself into but its been fun and a huge learning experience....

and thanks to everybody who has taken there time to help answer q's

 

[Cougar281]

One thing I found, in case you haven't noticed my posts, is that the LBZ water pump inlet is 2.5". The LLY is a shade under 2.25". The hose won't strech that much, and the LLY pump won't work on the LBZ block. The LBZ lower hose won't work with the LLY radiator. I'm working to find something to adapt down to the LLY's lower hose.

I fired up the electrical system and all the computers where happy it seemed. The only codes I got where in the ECM, most of which I was expecting (EGR motor, IAH), some I wasn't expecting but wheren't a problem (IAT because the MAF was unplugged), and only one wasn't expecing and wasn't sure about (APP2 code), turned out I have the wrong pedal. Make sure you get p/n 15233970, NOT 15107594 (which is the one I got and is for EVERYTHING EXCEPT the Diesels....). You'll also need p/n 15860124 in order to get the shift lever to index right.... Otherwise, in D it'll practically be on your knee...

 

[two_five_n_blue]

well i know i ordered ther right shifter lever but i gave them a vin off an 07 classic 3500hd for the pedal so it should be the correct one two.... but thats great that you got yours to fire up....:thumb:
im so ready to get this one to light, but i know we r gonna have a lotta codes, Nick@ duramax tuner has the tcm but im sure we cant do anything with it till i get it back.... but we gotta find out where the ign 1 volts goes there are two of them and the series #'s didnt match the 03 harness and 06 and we couldnt find ones to match them with, i cant remember but i believe we couldnt just put them in the same pin slot because it was being used but im not sure hopefully my partner in crime will figure that part out (He has the printed version of the pinouts u blessed us with)

 

[Cougar281]

I didn't get them motor fired up, just the computers.

The TCM's IGN voltage was a pair of pink wires. I don't recall where they started, or went, but I compared the C2 connector to the one in the truck and that was all that didn't match. I moved it to match the 04 harness.

 

[Car RamRod]

Awesome! Cougar, I'll be hitting you up for some pinouts too.

 

[two_five_n_blue]

Not sure whats going on but i put the tranny in gear and nothing happens, all it says is shift range inhibited on the message board it doesnt throw any codes at all...
i can read the tcm and flash etc but it wont go ito gear any suggestions for what will cause this