Horse Trailer Camper

[jlawles2]

I'm thinking of making the drawer and cabinets something like this, simple, effective

Or this

I like the idea of those drawers, but with the way the bottom is the slide, any out of level or slight twist in the frame may cause them to stick. You will also need to find a way to hold them closed. On our camper, the drawer has a catch that holds it closed.

In the motor home that my parents had when I was growing up, the drawers had a 1/2" x 1" notch in the side frames that required you to pick up the drawer to pull it out. The guide was a steel C shape like furniture uses, and the cabinet face was protected by a plastic L shape in the bottom corners. Wish I had pictures to help explain.

 

[Dozerboy]

Have you reached out to Adam about the brakes? I know he posted a bunch about what he did to his trailer.


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[2004LB7]

I like the idea of those drawers, but with the way the bottom is the slide, any out of level or slight twist in the frame may cause them to stick. You will also need to find a way to hold them closed. On our camper, the drawer has a catch that holds it closed.

In the motor home that my parents had when I was growing up, the drawers had a 1/2" x 1" notch in the side frames that required you to pick up the drawer to pull it out. The guide was a steel C shape like furniture uses, and the cabinet face was protected by a plastic L shape in the bottom corners. Wish I had pictures to help explain.

Those drawers (lower photo) are actually in a trailer and dont have binding issues that I know of. They where popularized by Ron Paulk and you can see him make the drawers here: https://youtu.be/YecDe9E8SD8

I believe I get what you mean by the drawer locks or catchs. You can see his version here in one of his videos

The other idea I am banging around in my head is making the frames out of steel tubing. I have more experience in steel fabrication and I think it could add some additional uniqueness and strength without really adding to the weight. Something like this:

If I went this route I would change the handles to holes in the drawer fronts and make the drawers flush with the front

 

[2004LB7]

Have you reached out to Adam about the brakes? I know he posted a bunch about what he did to his trailer.


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I know not of this Adam that you speak of. What screen name does he go by?

 

[2004LB7]

Ok, I think I know who you are referring too, malibu795

I've looked through his threads and dont see anything specific to an actuator. Great info on his truck brakes and such and looks like he went with 8k axles for the upgraded braking.

 

[jlawles2]

Its more expensive, but definitely more stable plywood especially for drawers if you use Baltic Birch (9 ply I think).

He definitely builds a nice drawer. Depending on how often he uses it will determine how well they actually hold up to racking of the trailer.

 

[2004LB7]

Haven't seen any Baltic Birch in any of the stores near me but there are two that I haven't checked out yet because they are further out. I would certainly like to use it if I can find it

 

[2004LB7]

Been thinking about the breakaway battery and wiring. Since this trailer will sit most of the time and not be on a charger (until I get it set up with my solar panels which could be a number of years) the battery for the breakaway circuit will likely go flat and probably bad often. I am guessing each time I would like to use it I would have to buy a new one.

Since I have a set of supercapacitors that I used to use as starting "batteries" in my LB7 sitting on the shelf. I thought maybe use those. The only issue I see is my calculations determine it would only run the brake actuator for a minute or so which doesn't meet the requirements of 15 minutes.

So, I thought why not install a normally closed solinoid valve or line lock in the brake line so the actuator only needs to run long enough to pressurize the brakes and then the solinoid valve will keep the pressure holding on the brakes (for as long as the caliper seals hold which is likely more then 15 minutes)

And as most solinoid valves are made to hold pressure in only one direction, the actuator sould be able to pressurize the brakes even if the valve is in the closed position, so a fail safe in a way. Also I could even wire a switch in the cab that would drop the Aux power and thus lock the brakes so if I wanted to have the trailer held still for short periods I could do this.

Anyone see any mojor issues with this? I've attached a wiring diagram to help you understand what I am thinking.

 

[jlawles2]

When you drouth aux power, it will not apply the brakes but will hold whatever you apply.

Might also consider putting a switch between the capacitor and the system to isolate it to prevent it from triggering the actuator when power gets low.

Might also look at putting a bypass valve on the normally closed valve just in case something happens to the actuator (which in my case would be somewhere on the road away from home).

On my camper since the aux battery for the entire camper is on the tongue, its where the brakes get their power for the breakaway. I also put a battery switch on the main battery so I can isolate it when it sits for long periods of time not plugged in.

 

[2004LB7]

Didn't think the actuator would kick on during low voltage. Are you sure that is what happens?

Putting a switch or a button on the trailer to apply the brakes and Maybe another to release them would be easy. I will likely do that. Apply would just jumper the breakaway and release would short the first diode so current would back feed from the cap to the solinoid valve.

Anyone know of a normally closed electric line lock? I know I can find high pressure rated solinoid valves but most are 24 or 120 AC and electrically controled line locks are made to work on 12 DC. It just seems that every one is a normally open verity which wouldn't work

 

[jlawles2]

You might actually look for a hydraulic control valve. I am looking on the Hawe system to see what I can find. Every tractor, forklift, etc has electric controlled valves. Most are 12v to 24v. Just need to find a singe closed center valve for you application. I can not see it being much more than 3800 psi.

I am not versed well on the hydraulic brake controllers, but you might want to read up to see what the low voltage trigger on the system is.

 

[2004LB7]

Apparently the actuators max out at 1600 psi so most hydraulic solinoid valves should work as long as the seal/seat material is capable and of dealing with brake fluid. Seen several with Buna N or unspecified which is no good. PTFE or Teflon would be nice

I've read over the manual of one of them ad didn't see anything about a low voltage cutout or minimum requirement, etc. I would think that they wouldn't be designed that way, for when the trailer sits for a while and the battery voltage slowly drops, the actuator would just kick in and apply the brakes until the voltage is too low to run??? Seems as if the voltage was below a specific value then it wouldn't turn on at all

 

[jlawles2]

What do the rules say about how long the actuator need to hold the brakes.

I am thinking through the problem and think I see a slight problem. Valve voltage needs to be more than actuator voltage. If battery supply voltage drops below actuator activation threshold before the valve closes, then the whole system is useless.

You may want to look into solenoid operated check valves. Split the actuator circuit and check voltage so the check closes but the check still lets fluid in.

Been doing some reading and looking. You need something rated for ethylene glycol service. ASCO might be able to help 12vdc may limit your pressure, but it could be the coil cannot supply enough oomph to open the valve at more than say 750 psi at 12 VDC. Body can take it, but you will have to find a way to open the valve. And if you can put pressure on both sides, then it may open as most valves opening is governed by differential pressure.

 

[2004LB7]

If memory serves me right federal regs state the breakaway need to hold for a minimum of 15 minutes.

Most solenoid valves can only hold pressure in one direction so if the "in" of the valve is plumbed to the caliper side and the "out" to the actuator then it should act just like a check valve when energized and free flowing when off. If the trailer breaks away the solenoid valve will not receive power but the capacitor will run the actuator and build pressure pass the valve and the valve will check it at the calipers.

Restore power to trailer and the valve will reopen and release the brakes. Only testing will tell if I can use it as a "parking brake" from the cab. As you mentioned the valve may not close quick enough to capture the pressure if power is cut to both the valve and actuator at the same time. A guess an accumulator could solve this but then it starts getting more complicated than I want and will slow the response of the brakes during normal operation

If the solenoid valve cant open after being activated due to too great of a pressure difference then pressing on the brake pedal to turn on the actuator sould pressurize the line and balance the pressure on both sides allowing the valve to open and restore normal operation

So I may only need to find a solenoid valve that has edpm or Teflon seals and and a body that can withstand the pressure. Finding one that can open at the full 1600 psi may not be necessary

 

[2004LB7]

Anyone know what seals are typically used in CNG solenoid valves?

 

[jlawles2]

Natural gas uses either Viton or Nitrile as standard seals. Nothing but a hydrocarbon there.

 

[2004LB7]

Natural gas uses either Viton or Nitrile as standard seals. Nothing but a hydrocarbon there.

Thats what I thought. I wonder how hard it would be to replace it. I've worked on enough solenoid valves and am familiar with how they are typically crimped in. I wonder if I could dig out the original one and fill it in with some Teflon.

Finding a responsibly priced solenoid valve with the right seal material and pressure is not easy. May just put that part on the back burner until something falls into my lap.

In the meantime I ordered the Dextor actuator so now I wait for everything to show up, then the install

 

[2004LB7]

So... I baught a sub $30 CNG solenoid off of eBay just to see what makes it tick and if it is any good for a brake fluid compatible seal conversion

 

[jlawles2]

Still looking at valves. Ran across this one. http://clarkcooper.com/hpv/EH30.html#HiPresstabs=1

You can get it NO or NC from what I am seeing.

 

[2004LB7]

Still looking at valves. Ran across this one. http://clarkcooper.com/hpv/EH30.html#HiPresstabs=1

You can get it NO or NC from what I am seeing.

Those sure are nice valves, and seem to be priced accordingly too. That would end up being the most expensive part on the whole build