Calling all Armchair accident reconstructionists

Cougar281

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2006
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St Louis, MO
So my sister and Niece were in a crash yesterday with her bosses car. Let me first say they're both 100% ok. The airbags didn't even deploy, and to paraphrase a GM SRS engineer that I spoke to way back at probably the first Merchant 'Spring Fling', where I asked him about a 'significant' crash I responded to where the airbags in a GMT800 truck pulling a 5th wheel didn't deploy, 'were they needed?'.

That being said, I'm very curious as to what may have caused it and am curious as to what people here may come up with.

So what happened is a tire let go and put the car into the left wall. Initially, my suspicion was someone driving it before her smoked a pothole with the front left tire and it had sidewall impact damage that decided to give up at that time. Steer tire failures USUALLY have the highest likelihood of loss of control. Turns out it was actually the right rear, and additionally, someone that stopped to make sure they were ok said it had been smoking for 'several miles'. That kind of info takes my brain in a different direction. IF the tire had been low enough on air to get hot enough to smoke (if that's even possible), there would have been a warning on the dash about tire pressure. So that takes me to thinking either wheel bearing or brake. She did mention something felt 'odd' for 'a bit' leading up to it, but she couldn't put her finger on it. So from there, my first thoughts are either the bearing failed and locked up or the brake had some sort of failure and ended up locking the wheel up, either way, dragging the tire until it reached the failure point. If that happened, the tire would show obvious evidence of it. That could be what happened, but the pictures I saw were inconclusive (if that had actually happened, that patch could have been under the wheel where the picture didn't show). Another thought would be could the bearing or brake generate enough heat in the failure to transmit it to the wheel and heat the tire up enough to cause it to fail? The report of smoke for 'several miles' does suggest quite a bit of heat (or a locked up wheel dragging the tire along). Although if something was generating massive amounts of heat to be transmitted into the wheel, I'd expect he OUTER portion of the tire to be affected first....

Given that this was a situation where no one was hurt or worse, and the only real damage is to the car (I'm told it put her into a guardrail, not a cable barrier) I kind of doubt that much effort will be put into determining the cause of the crash. The tin can is for sure a write off and insurance will likely end up closing the case, writing a check or two and calling it a day.

What do our armchair quarterbacks at DuramaxDiesels think? No legal ramifications here, and her boss seems to be a really good guy and seems to have been more concerned with the fact that it was his car and they could have been hurt.
 
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2004LB7

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Glad they are safe. But honestly I don't think there is enough information for any of use to make any meaningful conclusions. Are you able to get any of the photos uploaded here? That would likely help more then trying to describe what it looks like
 

Cougar281

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Sep 11, 2006
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The only relevant pics I have are below... I really didn't see anything obvious, Other than the inner sidewall seems to be totally gone (It wasn't clear, but she mentioned an 'inner part of the tire' being laying on the interstate... My thought is it was the inner sidewall - My mother asked if tires had tubes and I was like no, modern tires are tubeless, about all you'd see tubes on are things like Model T's or Franklins - stuff of that era)... but maybe someone with sharper eyes will see something...

Like I said, I doubt there's going to be much of an investigation since it was a no injury, single vehicle incident, so 'they'll' probably never give a theory... but I like to try to figure out what happened when something goes wrong to maybe learn from it - was it something that could have been seen and prevented, or was it a freak thing that really couldn't have been seen or prevented?

1752285285296.png 1752285318395.png
 
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2004LB7

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Better then nothing. But still little to go on. It does look like the tire unzipped on the inner side wall. Maybe low on air? If you can look at it, see if there is a bunch of crazing or small cracks on the side wall indicating excessive flexing

Maybe it felt weird because she was driving on a flat for a few miles. And if one of those loose cords snagged something and stopped the tire from turning it could have caused the loss of control???
 

jlawles2

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Jan 28, 2010
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Danbury, TX
I had a steer tire do something almost like that, but outside side wall vs inside. Did not think to ask when I had all 4 changed as to which one had the plug in the tire. I personally plugged one of them in the tread so I know at least one of them and I do think it was possibly the one that let go was plugged.

Smoking, it's going to be hard to tell, but if any of the suspension components on that corner of the car (like rubber bushings) were to be bad it could lead to an excessive toe situation that would pull the tire outward (right in this case) leading to potential for inside failure. When they pulled it up on the wrecker backwards the suspension components allowed the components to roll back in to position. Even vertical issues can create inside tire issues.
 

Cougar281

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Sep 11, 2006
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St Louis, MO
So I got some more info. The car was a 2022 Camry (pretty sure it was 2022). Apparently no more than a few minutes prior to the incident, it started a mild vibration that she said felt more like it was something in the road, but it wasn't significant and she couldn't put her finger on it. The odd thing is when things went sideways (literally), she said the steering wheel started shaking almost like it was something in the front end, but the RR very clearly let go and left the inner sidewall like 50' back in the road (and like I said, the person who was behind her that stopped said the RR had been smoking). I doubt it was low tire pressure because it had TPMS and there were no warnings. It does seem like maybe it could have been a failed bushing or something that caused a negative toe, and the vibration could have been the tire 'skipping' and rolling down the road. She, as I had, mentioned possibly impact damage, but something like that wouldn't smoke, it would be fine and then the next nanosecond it's not. She was worried that the filled in rumble strips in a section of construction could have caused damage, but that's not going to do it. you need to hit something like a pothole pretty hard to damage tires.