Compound p/r understanding

N2BRK

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Dec 31, 2009
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This is just to satisfy my own head about his things work. I trust Mark and his expertise and he is the one tuning my truck to keep the magic inside the block.
Disclaimer finished, I am super close to getting back on the road and I am trying to educate myself on my first compound turbo setup. Specifically, I am thinking about how they share the load and where they can both operate efficiently while doing so. I've read rules of thumb kinda posts about wanting the setup that I have to supply the total boost 50/50, etc. I got hung up on the p/r math but figured out my mistakes and I think (hope!) that I have a decent grasp now. That said, when I look at the maps of the stock IHI and the S475, I don't see where the 50/50 recommendation is working for me. I've also read that you want to have both turbos at about the same pressure ratio, and that makes some sense. I suppose that you might want to play around with the contributions of each to find where the setup is most responsive, but the compressor maps and the p/r should perhaps dictate the playing field boundaries to avoid catastrophe or poor performance from surge etc.

My build: 2002 Lb7, SBE, 12mm pump, 65 over SACs, stock port/polished IHI and box stock S475 t6 1.32 a/r.

I am guesstimating max tune will have arguably about 45psi. I live at about sea-level.

(45psig+14.7psia)/13.7psia= 4.36 p/r
Primary making 15psi is a 2.17 p/r (halfway up the first island on the compressor map).
Secondary picks up the rest and delivers 30psi more. 2.19 p/r (halfway up the first island on its map).

Doesn't that seem better than 50/50 where the primary is at 2.72 (just leaving it's most efficient "island" on the map), and the secondary is at 1.64 (just below it's greatest area of efficiency on its compressor map)? Or is the 50/50 because the BTDT guys know that this is where everything responds best and it's within acceptable limits?

Just curious :)
 

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Chevy1925

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60 overs and a 12mm, you can make more than 45psi lol. You can get in the 55-60range with that fuel. Now if you are capping yourself at 45psi, different story. You will have to do that with fuel. Probably put you in a strong 500rwhp area.

As for 50/50 boost. That was the general easy way to setup the stock turbo wastegate. Trent use to preach about setting up the wastegate to the coolest egt which works but can hurt spool up. I set mine up so the valley turbo makes about 20psi and then the big turbo starts kicking in. Gives me about a 5psi window above the 20psi depending on how I’m driving and keep the stock turbo in its map. Then it’s pretty linear with the big turbo adding boost to the system. At 60psi, the big turbo is making 35-40psi.

I still want to play with the gate some more.

Btw, when you start making the small turbo rely on the big turbo to stay in its map and you loose a boost tube, that stock turbo does not like it. Anthony found that out
 

N2BRK

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Dec 31, 2009
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45 was a guess, since I made about 45 on my last truck with the 68mm and similar fuel @685rwhp.

For my “big” tune, I’m fine with as much Ricky Bobby as she’ll take without making banana rods ?.

Once I get to the point where I can play with this, maybe I’ll swap my PPE valve for something that I can adjust, and I’ll experiment some :) My replacement ihi stock turbo came with an adjustable arm for the wastegate, so between the two I should be able to confuse myself plenty, hahaha.
 

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
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You will need an adjustable regulator. It’s going to open far too late (I think, can’t remember)
 

N2BRK

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I'm a little over a year older and maybe a little smarter about how this works now, LOL. My calculations were also off a little too. I went back to Idaho Rob's posts and I'm back playing with it tonight, and I found some interesting things.

I increased the wastegate tension a couple times and logged each change. It's so cool to watch the data and "see" the wastegate open in the data. It's also interesting to see the difference between it opening with modest throttle and when you go WFO. It's also super cool to see the data instead of just the "records" on the Edge showing max numbers, and making wrong ASSumptions :) Laying it all out in excel is great, and I can make my formulas to show P/R and boost vs each data cell.

Right now, I have the wastegate allowing about 15psi out of the valley turbo before it opens in spirited use. At WFO use it opens at 13psi. I also am watching how at that moment and beyond, the secondary boost drops like a stone and primary takes off like a rocket. I didn't go past 80mph, as I am easing into the changes, but with the data logged tonight I'm seeing total boost of 51.5psi; S475 is making 31.5psi at that time, and the secondary is all the way down to 6.5psi. Primary s475 Pressure ratio at that boost level is 3.15, and I'm not positive on the flow but i'm thinking it's hitting the map at about 84k rpm and on the .76 efficiency "island". Seems like a happy spot on the map.

I want to spend more time in typical driving and also to hold WFO out longer, and see how the logs look. I'm thinking that I'll want more wastegate. Not sure how EGT will like that, but it's just a number, LOL.

Oh, I also see the sensor/log lag in the data, and I can't imagine how bad it must be on a faster truck!

Caltracs are planting the back end nicely tonight too :) Finally got off my ass and installed them too.

Sorry for rambling; it's late. LOL
 

N2BRK

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I tried to upload the excel file as a zip file, and I keep getting an error: "A server error occurred. Please try again later.". It's been like this for a couple days with pictures too... did James get DEF in the server???? @Chevy1925
 

rcr1978

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Apr 1, 2007
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Cool to see guys playing with the old Twinned LB7 turds still, I always like these posts :cool:. Mines never been right ever since the stock turbo took a shit and I put one of those 68/76 turbine stock drop in units in. It was a 67.7/100comp 68/76turbine, completely killed the low end/out of the hole performance. Last year I finally pulled it and stuck a 63.5/87 compressor wheel & cover on it. It helped but still a turd down low, my elevation definately doesn't help (5500+) but I just think those big turbine drop in units are only good for WOT and that's it.
 

Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
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Oct 21, 2009
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There is a server issue. I got time to get on the host about it today. Been working till 12am most nights this week. Not been fun.

As for what you got going on, your boost pressures aint mathing. 51psi total, 31 out the 475 and 6.5 out the ihi means you are gaining magically somewhere lol
 

N2BRK

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Dec 31, 2009
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I don’t think you can just add them to come up to total boost, since the secondary isn’t breathing at 14.7.
 

N2BRK

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That was one of my (many) initial stumbling blocks :)

I'm interested in your setup where you defeated the wastegate. I'm seeing how that could actually be a great idea. I am concerned though about how much EGT I'm seeing as I tighten the wastegate though.