Alto G4 Friction Material

[Bdsankey]

Well the time has come, Alto has FINALLY released the G4 friction material. On paper, it has lower dynamic and static friction coefficient BUT a 50c higher temp handling capability.

I ordered a set of C1>C4 for my personal dually to try out. This truck will be 600-650whp area (JZ 63.5/66, 100%, Sportsman or 10mm). It should be a decent test mule as I beat the tar out of my trucks. Being a 6spd, the C4 should see some load towing heavy and messing around on the back roads. I figure if I want to advance my trans program I need to be willing to be a test mule haha.

Once I have them in my hand, I will post some pictures. Currently they're only sold in PowerPaks so no individual friction disk sales at the moment. Be warned, the are quite a bit more expensive than the G3s.

 

[Chevy1925]

Well in a tow rig, clutches never wound up being my issues. The hard parts became the issue, killing planetaries and bearings

You would probably be better in a high hp application to see if the fast shifting and less defuel play a roll on any shedding or delam or tie ups.

 

[PureHybrid]

What took so long? Didn't Mike talk about this G4 stuff like 5+ years ago? What's the going price for a c4 pack?

50C higher is quite a bit. How's that stack up against the GPZ?

 

[Bdsankey]

Well in a tow rig, clutches never wound up being my issues. The hard parts became the issue, killing planetaries and bearings

You would probably be better in a high hp application to see if the fast shifting and less defuel play a roll on any shedding or delam or tie ups.

I don’t disagree one bit. While not as great of a test mule as something making more jam, I don’t have anything else to test on.

My LB7 rig trans is already built with my current favorite C3/C4 clutches. That is running carb C1, waffle g3 C2, and keyhole g3 C3/C4 with LML apply/spring cages.


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[Bdsankey]

What took so long? Didn't Mike talk about this G4 stuff like 5+ years ago? What's the going price for a c4 pack?

50C higher is quite a bit. How's that stack up against the GPZ?

I would LOVE to know what took so long. Mike was talking about G4 in 2019/2020………..

I am awaiting retail cost but I can my cost on some G4 packs is the same as retail on some G3 packs………

I don’t typically run GPZ. I personally think they are not a useful clutch for the C3/C4. I’ve had better luck with high energy C3/C4 for slotted as they seem to not glaze as fast.

My typical C1 plate is a waffle G3 lately.

C2 I really like the grey GPZ material

C3/C4 I tend to use SCZ195 or SCZ196. Tan parallel G3 are also a damn good clutch. I’ve noticed the SCZ195 seems to take the most abuse and keep shifting quality similar to the black keyhole G3.


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[TheBac]

"Covid happened" is my bet. At least they're here now.

Do they recommend extra oiling capacity for these new clutches?

 

[Bdsankey]

"Covid happened" is my bet. At least they're here now.

Do they recommend extra oiling capacity for these new clutches?

Extra oiling capacity in what sense? I can’t honestly find shit about them beyond the material details on their website. The kit PNs aren’t even on their website.

From what I can tell they have a slightly lower friction coefficient (0.12-.17) vs g3 (0.14-0.20) but added some temp handling capability.

Once they’re available in large volumes as clutches only I expect pricing to come down but there are so few of them out there now. Goerend, for example, only has 10 sets (9 now) coming in…….

I don’t know how many Randys got. They claim they’re in stock but Matthew can’t even produce a picture of them for the Allison community.


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[Chevy1925]

I think Tom means like how we had been truing to get more oiling on the c3’s, if these would need it or if they would hold more like the key hole design they tried.

 

[Ridin'GMC]

Interesting. Evan used the GPZ in his setup which is what I have now. Although I'm not running a high HP setup but it's been solid so far towing and driving hard, never saw my temp go past 210 in the 90⁰ weather towing. The g4 may seem a good setup for my other truck which will see probably more abuse with larger tires.

 

[Bdsankey]

I think Tom means like how we had been truing to get more oiling on the c3’s, if these would need it or if they would hold more like the key hole design they tried.

Gotcha. Time will tell. I don’t quite know the pattern yet since I can’t find any solid images.

The one I can find makes me believe they’re the same pattern as a SCZ195 (pic on my stove). The SCZ195 seems to be just fine with the mods I do. I tend to drill the Goerend style C3 oiling holes on everything. This will get a pressure lubed C3 setup off the return cooler line.

I’ve heard/seen some guys drilling multiple bleed holes in the piston as well as steels. I haven’t had to go that far yet.

The keyhole G3 and the SCZ196 (waffle) have always been killer at holding enough oil in my experience.

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[Bdsankey]

Interesting. Evan used the GPZ in his setup which is what I have now. Although I'm not running a high HP setup but it's been solid so far towing and driving hard, never saw my temp go past 210 in the 90⁰ weather towing. The g4 may seem a good setup for my other truck which will see probably more abuse with larger tires.

GPZ aren’t “bad”. Realistically any 6 friction setup will hold 600-700whp all day long including high energy.

As a builder I buy in large enough quantities that the price difference between a GPZ and G3 is $1 per friction plate. I pay an extra $5 for SCZ195 or SCZ196. The SCZ196 is the tan GPZ material but in a waffle pattern. Note these are talking about C3/C4 friction prices.

They offer the best blend of shift quality over its entire lifespan and holding power. I’ve used them in a 6 friction setup holding 1500-1600whp. They did show some signs of being overpowered at that level tho.

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[PureHybrid]

I would LOVE to know what took so long. Mike was talking about G4 in 2019/2020………..

I am awaiting retail cost but I can my cost on some G4 packs is the same as retail on some G3 packs………

I don’t typically run GPZ. I personally think they are not a useful clutch for the C3/C4. I’ve had better luck with high energy C3/C4 for slotted as they seem to not glaze as fast.

My typical C1 plate is a waffle G3 lately.

C2 I really like the grey GPZ material

C3/C4 I tend to use SCZ195 or SCZ196. Tan parallel G3 are also a damn good clutch. I’ve noticed the SCZ195 seems to take the most abuse and keep shifting quality similar to the black keyhole G3.


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Sorry if I confused you, wasn't referring to the slotted GPZ but the SCZ196. Like you said it's just as well to run the cheaper Borg HE plates @ $5. Haven't seen a set of slotted GPZ plates in a few years but I thought they were grey like the c2 plates.

I wonder what Alto thinks the big deal is with these over the tan G3. Yea extra temp resistance is great but it's not like the tan stuff is bad

 

[JoshH]

I heard from my supplier that this was a limited production run by Alto, and they were only releasing 10 complete sets (including C5) to a select group of distributors which matches with Brad's comment about Goerend only having 10 sets available. I have 2 sets coming, one of which I plan to use on our L5P shop truck that has a set of compounds over stock. The other set I will probably put in my 06 once I finally get a motor back in it.

 

[PureHybrid]

Could've had these for Christmas wtf Alto

 

[JoshH]

I can already see these are going to have me pissed off trying to get the correct clearances in a late model 6 speed.

 

[Chevy1925]

I can already see these are going to have me pissed off trying to get the correct clearances in a late model 6 speed.

Whys that? I was about to call dave for a set

 

[Bdsankey]

Sorry if I confused you, wasn't referring to the slotted GPZ but the SCZ196. Like you said it's just as well to run the cheaper Borg HE plates @ $5. Haven't seen a set of slotted GPZ plates in a few years but I thought they were grey like the c2 plates.

I wonder what Alto thinks the big deal is with these over the tan G3. Yea extra temp resistance is great but it's not like the tan stuff is bad

10-4, I misunderstood. I don't think there will be a major change but time will tell. That's why I bought them early to give it a shot. I figure I WILL NOT use or recommend a product I haven't used. If it's going to fail, I'd rather it be mine or an extremely close friend who understands the risk.

I heard from my supplier that this was a limited production run by Alto, and they were only releasing 10 complete sets (including C5) to a select group of distributors which matches with Brad's comment about Goerend only having 10 sets available. I have 2 sets coming, one of which I plan to use on our L5P shop truck that has a set of compounds over stock. The other set I will probably put in my 06 once I finally get a motor back in it.

I figured we all know OEM/high energy will take absolutely anything so to me I decided to save the extra coin on the C5 set.

I didn't know that the release strategy was 10 sets each to select vendors, that's good to know. I don't expect them to be lightyears different than the tan G3 parallel we have now BUT that's simply speculation.

 

[PureHybrid]

I can already see these are going to have me pissed off trying to get the correct clearances in a late model 6 speed.

Do they measure different than what's listed? I'm just as confused as James

 

[pl_silverado]

Subscribing.

 

[buick455]

Interesting.