Twins with Twins, Anyone?

[kidturbo]

I attempted to adjust the apps voltage scales down in the ECM tables to match observed throttle readings. Tune file loaded fine, but bricks the ECM upon completion.

Good thing I've yet to find a way to actually kill an E35. Try as I may, they always recover... EFI recovery script tested and certified good ... Lol

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[2004LB7]

here is my log of all the Accelerator, Throttle and voltage PIDs I could find. looks like my APP_D only gets to 84%

 

[kidturbo]

Thanks for that data. Seems to be within the range I've noted on the bench for V and APP_D. Doesn't explain why or how the main torque tables could use that D range and still ever reach full fueling. On the jet boat, it's holding back I can see in the logs. This boat, seem to still reach full fueling over 2500R...

Might be good question for Ross and the EFIlive guys to maybe elaborate on further. Probably worth
another spawn thread, since I'm obviously dragging us off topic again. But inquiring minds want to know....

Below is your stock APPS tables from typical LMM OS. As mentioned, I calibrated these custom throttles at a 4.5v max APP1 and gets me to 92%. When I adjusted those voltage down in tune, I got a brick. However I just lowered each by 0.2v rather than saying -5% on each line to see where they landed. Gonna play on the bench with a spare ECU and see if can figure out what GM will accept in those values.

I did experince a dead stick issue on Port engine in the boat the other day. Wiggled the deutsch connector back of engine and went away. So, now it's got me wondering even more...

 

[2004LB7]

well it does say "Learn" in there. makes me think there is a leaning procedure involved to tell what is actually "100%". now that I mention it, I thought I read a procedure somewhere on how to do it. maybe that's where the APP pid info comes from since that one does go to 100%

as for the trouble on adjusting the voltage lower, is it possible that sensor volt #2 also needs to be adjusted together to make the ECM happy (Code P2138 APP Sensor 1-2 correlation)?

 

[kidturbo]

Ok pulled up all the dyno logs and realized we never tracked APP_D. Next I did some digging over at EFI forum and found where this APP_D question was brought up a few times back in 2009 in LBZ/LMM topics, by some names I recognize.

Is there a throttle PID....

than begins at zero % and ends at 100%? LMM APP_D and APP_E and TP and APP, all do not.

forum.efilive.com

Please add 'APP' and 'APP_E' to the LBZ pid lists

These are the throttle position PID's for the LMM and LBZ respectively. Thanks, Nick

forum.efilive.com

And most relevant one I found was this topic that shows how to change the "column" pid used in LBZ tune files from APP_D to APP_x or TP_A, whatever best suits your needs.. Which tells me, they likely never changed this in the LMM release version to reflect the correct tracking pid..

V8 BBL - Diesel (LBZ) problem

Hey guys! I can't seem to log the throttle position in any of my BBL tunes. There shows 2 choices but no 'parameter' name. Although I've selected both option (and both carry over to the 'scan' side of things) it still only shows one on my log and the flashscan (SAE.TP) and that does not...

forum.efilive.com

Looking through some data logs linked to B1115 in LBZ, or B1161 in LMM, I also noticed that the lower values are off also. Since APP_D reads about 17% when APP is actually 0%,, the top two rows in those torque tables would also never comes into play.. So, I'm going to take the advice in last topic above and modify my config files, then go log some more live data tomorrow and see which one matches up...

Most would never find reason to be concerned with the full range pedal to torque values, however as you may have noticed, I'm experiencing some serous traction problems. Feathering two throttles with one hand on the wheel is tricky at best. Need all the help I can program....

 

[kidturbo]

Some video of rolling coal on a barge load of coal...

Source: https://youtu.be/5nWrFoY5zFc

 

[SmokeShow]

 

[2004LB7]

definitely looks like it is getting better. what did you end up doing about those slipping clutch packs?

 

[kidturbo]

I cranked up the line pressure 100psi, and went back out and finished em off yesterday..

I think the shift solenoids may be wired up backwards. In the ECM logs, its dropping load and jumping 1000rpm for about 2-seconds on the upshift. Not the props breaking loose now, so has to be a delay in the shifting process. It uses a capacitor to hold one solenoid open while the other releases pressure. Waiting on a flow diagram to verify direction. Cut down some more clutches [waffle this time], and hopefully have em back in by the weekend.

 

[PureHybrid]

Probably going to suck putting in all this work just to hand the keys over to the guys down under

 

[kidturbo]

Na, I leave the keys in it, parked where anyone can easily take off with it.... lol.

It's to the point now where I really need a pit crew that can tackle issues like the transmissions needing swapped in a few hours. Feel pretty confident that the package is solid, and now it's just shake out all the bugs.

And on the topic of bugs, the boat can get into AU, but I personally can not yet. Here I have little help or places to work on it, or I could easily roll back down to FL, and deal with the Rona.. Ah the decisions we must make for advancement of technology..


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[JoshH]

I've never bothered to look at what PID the APP to torque table tracks. I just setup my tables so I reach full fueling at 100% throttle or a little before. As long as you are hitting full fueling, there isn't a problem (you said it does at 2500 RPM). Maybe you are MAF limited?

 

[kidturbo]

It's wrong PID, they never corrected it after was noted on LBZ. What does come into play that ya can't see or adjust is boost to fueling. Unless the ECM sees xxx_kpa on Map2, it restricts the max MAIN1Q_DMA no matter what you command. Saw that on the bench setup, noted few pages back I believe.

On the twins it's easy to see in the logs after you shift, RPM drops under 2000s, boost drops to 5psi, and EGT are sub 900F.

But on the Jet boat [pic2] with a MAF, it still holding back at 3000rpm under light load. Only value that's out of spec, low boost.. Not leaking, no smoke, low egt also, but stops pulling before max fuel.

So either it's not requesting enough torque, or it's not seeing enough boost to satisfy that missing fuel control table.. Thoughts?

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[kidturbo]

Spent the day in the bilge with a buddy pulling transmissions. One is smoked, clutches about to weld up, and other is medium rare by smell.

Found a petty good exhaust leak on port turbo inlet V-band. That's 2 goid leaks on port, and none on stbd.. Custom chit rulz....

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[2004LB7]

I've always had good luck putting those v bands on with some anti seize. It of course burns off in use but it allows then to be tighten down properly when putting them together. Far less leaks when I use it

 

[kidturbo]

Thanks, will certainly do.. Since all the other clamps are also SS Tbolt, have saw a rash of gaulded treads on removal.. On 3rd set of turbo discharge side V-bands alone.

Always say I'm gonna use neversieze, but never seems to be any around when ya need it..

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[2004LB7]

Make sure you coat the mating surfaces and the inside perimeter of the band clamp

 

[turbo_bu]

Don't forget to tap on the outside of the V band clamps after you snug them down. Then tighten them some more, and tap them again. After a couple times, it should tighten up. As has also been mentioned, anti-sieze is your friend with stainless to help prevent galling.

 

[Dozerboy]

I agree on antiseiz. I used it the last time and the damn V bands went together so easy I was questioning that I had it together.

 

[kidturbo]

Trainees loaded and headed to Joplin Missouri. Going to go check on that little Cummins Marine project, and hopefully rebuild these puppies over the weekend.

Anyone interesting to see along the way?. Mark said I can't wake him up at 3 a.m. however. LOL

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