Oil cooling

[hondarider552]

I just drained my oil tonight, just shy of 14 qts.:thumb:

Considering where I read my oil temp is the hottest part, I tihnk the cooler is going it's job. I have always thought the stock cooler is being overworked in a stock truck, and gets equally as worse once it's tuned running abouve stock power.

 

[super diesel]

April 3rd I believe. And for a high stall converter that isnt meant for towing, by design, I am impressed by the drivability of it with my setup at near sea level. its not laggy or soft, it hits hard and is much more responsive than I expected

That high stall will benefit you up here Tim.


Fingers. I'm thinking that if we lower the pre-stock cooler oil temps (lower the temp of what just came out of the pan), the engine coolant temp will be better off as will A/C operation too. If we lower it before it enters the engine, wouldn't it be lower when it got through it and drained back down to the pan? 300* in pan temps can break an oil down right quick and in a hurry. Even synthetics don't like these temps.

 

[hondarider552]

I'm thinking that if we lower the pre-stock cooler oil temps (lower the temp of what just came out of the pan), the engine coolant temp will be better off as will A/C operation too. .

x2.

 

[BlkMax]

...Oil temps ARE important, but without additional volume, you don't make much of a dent in the in-pan temperatures by just cooling the oil.

Fingers,
I talked to Mike L about transmission temperatures prior to buying my Mike L cooler for the trans. One of the solutions used on my overheating ATS Stage 3 (a while ago from a builder who just installed kits, but did not really know Allison transmissions-hard learned mistake) was to add the ATS deep pan and more oil volume. All this did was to delay the inevitable. My trans would overheat at idle and low speeds. For me in Alaska, the the ECT would never reach a temperature hot enough to engage the fan clutch and the trans would get REAL hot (in my case the fan was needed to pull air through the TRANS cooler). BTW after installing the Mike L trans cooler I never looked back on my ATS overheating problem at idle and low speeds (stop and go traffic).

Back on topic but based on the above: Mike said that all I did with the larger ATS pan on my Ali was to DELAY the time it took to overheat the transmission. In my case this was true, the additional oil volume and "cooling" provided by the fin arrangement on the cast ATS deep pan simply meant I could go a little longer before the transmission temps would soar when driving around town, or real slow in the mountains. I think the same can be said for the engine oil temps. Additional volume would simply delay the oil overheating (which may be OK for drag or pulling situations, but not for DD situations).

This leads me to another question: Who besides KillerBee provides a kit solution for the oil cooler?

Super Diesel,
Are you going to be putting an engine oil cooler kit together? Was this a partial driver for this thread?

 

[hondarider552]

This leads me to another question: Who besides KillerBee provides a kit solution for the oil cooler?

No one that I know of, besides the DIY kit that Dustin posted earlier.

Super Diesel,
Are you going to be putting an engine oil cooler kit together?

I hope so. His temps seem to be right with mine, but my kit only works on GMC's without having to cut up the bumper on the Chevy's. And I think his kit would be a bit cheaper than what I paid.

 

[super diesel]

I just drained my oil tonight, just shy of 14 qts.:thumb:

Considering where I read my oil temp is the hottest part, I tihnk the cooler is going it's job. I have always thought the stock cooler is being overworked in a stock truck, and gets equally as worse once it's tuned running above stock power.

Exactly correct Brian. I had a momentary laps of reason, but I'm back on track now (to many other things I'm thinking about). The port I posted a pick of in post #57 IS getting the hot oil from the pan (after the pick up and oil pump). We have seen differences in oil temp with the coolers and as long as the temps checked at this location it will be the same as the pan (moving at 16-18gpm is pumpin pretty good). If these temps ARE kept in check at this point and kept cool, it's telling us that the pan temps are cool thus the COOLING OIL thats draining down off the motor components is being kept cool. That's the BIG key.

 

[hondarider552]

I need to find my Raytek temp gun, used to use it for RC stuff years ago, im interested what the hotside of the air-air cooler is compared to the pan, my bet is their about the same.

 

[super diesel]

I need to find my Raytek temp gun, used to use it for RC stuff years ago, im interested what the hotside of the air-air cooler is compared to the pan, my bet is their about the same.

X2 if you check the inlet side of the cooler. It may loose a little through the hoses, but probably pretty close. Post #106 explains why. Were pumping it right from the pan to the cooler pretty much. Couple of bends and 1 pump latter.

 

[hondarider552]

Im sure it picks up a few degrees coming close to my PPE manifolds

 

[lddrew]

Mike you've got me seriously considering doing a temp gauge and possibly a cooler if necessary.

are you going to be considering making your own kit.

been reading here the last few days and it seems the factory fuel and oil cooler are both insufficient

thanks,
Lee

 

[super diesel]

Im sure it picks up a few degrees coming close to my PPE manifolds

Thank goodness for heat wrap.

Mike you've got me seriously considering doing a temp gauge and possibly a cooler if necessary.

are you going to be considering making your own kit.

been reading here the last few days and it seems the factory fuel and oil cooler are both insufficient

thanks,
Lee

There needing help for sure. I'm planning on it as soon as I have a few things sorted out on this other truck I'm doing one on. Hopefully soon for the whole thing. Some components I can get done now. It's just the bracket for the coolers for the stock bumpered trucks I'm needing to do.

 

[lddrew]

Thanks michael. that sounds good. I need to get a EOT gauge first. i'll stay in touch and keep readin this thread

 

[Fingers]

Fingers,
I talked to Mike L about transmission temperatures prior to buying my Mike L cooler for the trans. One of the solutions used on my overheating ATS Stage 3 (a while ago from a builder who just installed kits, but did not really know Allison transmissions-hard learned mistake) was to add the ATS deep pan and more oil volume. All this did was to delay the inevitable. My trans would overheat at idle and low speeds. For me in Alaska, the the ECT would never reach a temperature hot enough to engage the fan clutch and the trans would get REAL hot (in my case the fan was needed to pull air through the TRANS cooler). BTW after installing the Mike L trans cooler I never looked back on my ATS overheating problem at idle and low speeds (stop and go traffic).

Back on topic but based on the above: Mike said that all I did with the larger ATS pan on my Ali was to DELAY the time it took to overheat the transmission. In my case this was true, the additional oil volume and "cooling" provided by the fin arrangement on the cast ATS deep pan simply meant I could go a little longer before the transmission temps would soar when driving around town, or real slow in the mountains. I think the same can be said for the engine oil temps. Additional volume would simply delay the oil overheating (which may be OK for drag or pulling situations, but not for DD situations).

Not Volume as in the amount of oil in the pan but volume as in pumped volume.

 

[Fingers]

That high stall will benefit you up here Tim.


Fingers. I'm thinking that if we lower the pre-stock cooler oil temps (lower the temp of what just came out of the pan), the engine coolant temp will be better off as will A/C operation too. If we lower it before it enters the engine, wouldn't it be lower when it got through it and drained back down to the pan? 300* in pan temps can break an oil down right quick and in a hurry. Even synthetics don't like these temps.

It will help the cooling system and lower pan temp.. to a point. When you cool below a certain point, the water actually adds heat to the oil. The problem, IMO is not the cooling, it is too little oil being splashed on the hot parts. The solution, however, is not just putting a larger oil pump in the engine. (I tried that)

 

[Fingers]

Do we need a finned (ribbed) oil pan to help shed the in pan temps? Should we be checking after cooler temps instead?

Finned would help, but it is after the fact.

IMO you want to check them where they are the hottest, in the pan. Secondary would be the coolest, just after the cooler.

 

[BlkMax]

Not Volume as in the amount of oil in the pan but volume as in pumped volume.

I understand. Thank you.

 

[lddrew]

It will help the cooling system and lower pan temp.. to a point. When you cool below a certain point, the water actually adds heat to the oil. The problem, IMO is not the cooling, it is too little oil being splashed on the hot parts. The solution, however, is not just putting a larger oil pump in the engine. (I tried that)

if you don't mind me asking what is the answer then??
i'm guessing you ran an LML oil pan and pump to try to get more oil on hot parts and saw little to no gain?

 

[Fingers]

if you don't mind me asking what is the answer then??
i'm guessing you ran an LML oil pan and pump to try to get more oil on hot parts and saw little to no gain?

No, I ran a Curtis pump. There was way too much restriction in the engine to take advantage of the additional flow and it caused other issues. Especially when cold. I did not transplant the pump to this latest engine build.

To do it right, again IMO:

High flow pump.
Larger piston pissers.
Pressure bypass to pan. (Curtis pump has no bypass.)
Oil Temp controlled bypass to cooler.
Dual, if not triple filters to handle flow rate.​

 

[lddrew]

No, I ran a Curtis pump. There was way too much restriction in the engine to take advantage of the additional flow and it caused other issues. Especially when cold. I did not transplant the pump to this latest engine build.

To do it right, again IMO:

High flow pump.
Larger piston pissers.
Pressure bypass to pan. (Curtis pump has no bypass.)
Oil Temp controlled bypass to cooler.
Dual, if not triple filters to handle flow rate.​

thanks fingers. that sounds mighty expensive
I guess I'll stay tuned and see what kind of results these guys are getting from bolt up coolers.

thanks for the informative post.

 

[Slammed2007Lbz]

Is there a aftermarket that makes larger piston squirters for our motors? Or is this something you can have a motor builder does when they build your motor? Is it possible for me to put bigger squirters in my lbz with the motor still in the truck?