LB7 Heads

[N2BRK]

I tried to set this up as a poll, but it's too open ended and too many choices, lol. I also tend to snowball projects like a MOFO, so help me reel it in maybe, hehe.

I have 200k on the '02. HG's are believed to be original and I have no issues. I will be tearing her down to pull the injectors and bumping up to 65 over SAC and adding an S475/stock compound kit and 12mm; SBE only. While she's apart, it's a good time to pull the heads and stud her.

Here's the first stop! ASSuming that I can't find a good used set of ARP studs, should I go new ARP, DHD, Xotic, other?

Main hurdle - the LB7 heads. In no particular order of preference: Clean em up and slap em back on with studs and grade C wave gaskets? Have a shop true 'em up first and then same? Remove and reseal all cups? Run Socal hold downs and studs and don't worry about the cups at this level... maybe take the saved money and do springs? Pony up for Freedom? Leave them the hell alone and ghetto in some studs one at a time. Any combination of these or something else?

I appreciate most learned opinions and all snarky remarks; sexual innuendo on snowballing a plus.

 

[Bdsankey]

I tried to set this up as a poll, but it's too open ended and too many choices, lol. I also tend to snowball projects like a MOFO, so help me reel it in maybe, hehe.

I have 200k on the '02. HG's are believed to be original and I have no issues. I will be tearing her down to pull the injectors and bumping up to 65 over SAC and adding an S475/stock compound kit and 12mm; SBE only. While she's apart, it's a good time to pull the heads and stud her.

Here's the first stop! ASSuming that I can't find a good used set of ARP studs, should I go new ARP, DHD, Xotic, other?

Personally I would go ARP or Gator. They share the same stud blank, the difference is Gator rolls their threads/adds the hexes etc overseas whereas ARP does them here in the USA. For goals under 1000whp and down a normal strength stud is fine, anything over 1000whp I like to go right to a 625/comp stud as it's going to be needed. I've had guys who bought high strength studs and they ran it 2-3 years until they actually took the motor down for a build so I would keep that in mind.

Main hurdle - the LB7 heads. In no particular order of preference: Clean em up and slap em back on with studs and grade C wave gaskets? Have a shop true 'em up first and then same? Remove and reseal all cups? Run Socal hold downs and studs and don't worry about the cups at this level... maybe take the saved money and do springs? Pony up for Freedom? Leave them the hell alone and ghetto in some studs one at a time. Any combination of these or something else?

I appreciate most learned opinions and all snarky remarks; sexual innuendo on snowballing a plus.

Personally I have not had an issue with the OEM heads. The ideal setup would be a set of Fleece/Freedom cupless heads with some good springs/pushrods from say Manton or SoCal. I'm not a dual spring fan (Wagler) as they run typically higher seat pressure and don't offer any benefits over a high quality beehive spring as a dual spring setup has more moving mass that negates a good portion of the added spring rate.

If you're reusing the OEM heads they must be taken to a machine shop to be pressure checked, decked flat, and all guides/seats/valves checked and reparied as needed. My usually bill at the machine shop we use is $500-$900 depending on condition, that buys one new Fleece head or the savings from using the OEM heads vs Fleece buys you valvetrain (I have no clue what you want to spend).


My personal truck is running OEM heads with threaded cups (did it before cupless were a thing), Manton springs, Manton 7/16" pushrods, Manton billet bridges, Manton rocker shafts, Merchant rocker shaft bolts, and ARP 625s with goals in the 800-1000whp area.

 

[1FastBrick]

Like Brad said. How much are you willing to spend? I know PPE has there Iron heads out now as well. If the heads are in good shape, Maybe invest in those. I don't know what the threaded sleeve option cost to add to them but you would still be under a new set of heads. If I went aftermarket, It would likely be the fleece offerings.

For reference, My LBZ heads had 16 Bad guides, and 5 bad Intake valves. It was mostly the exhaust side that had the bad guides but I believe 3 or 4 intakes were also bad. I supplied the new parts and I think the Labor/ machining bill at the machine shop was around $575 if I remember correctly. I think with guides, valves and 2 or 3 day shipping it was around another $200 ish. The seals came in the gasket kit I purchased previously but they run around $40 or so for reference depending on how you purchase them and whom is selling them.

I went with the standard ARP Studs. My thought on that was for the price difference, I know they will work. I am not knocking the other brands but what's $50 or so dollars at this point... The Exotic's I would not use at all based on what I have seen so far, Not just Brads experience with them. Although I did purchase everything through Brad.

 

[N2BRK]

Since I just got the truck and it has 200k, there's a lot of assumptions and unknowns. I know that with my LMM (tuned almost right away) I was the only owner. At 150k when I did heads, the machine shop laughed at me and said he barely touched them for flatness and nothing else was required. I shouldn't think anyone else cared for this truck like I care for my trucks!

As for cost, I'm already into this truck for more than it'll ever be worth and that's OK. I didn't buy it to flip it in the future. I'll keep it forever or damned near. I would have kept the LMM if not for circumstances being what they were.

I had dismissed the PPE cast iron heads early on, but now I see that they come with upgraded springs. Hmm. The cost isn't as terrible with that consideration. I'll do some more homework on them.

I need to decide how important the cups are. If I decide they are an issue for me to worry about, I will go with new cast heads. If not, I'll pull mine and take them to the machine shop.

Thanks for the continued education

 

[Bdsankey]

Like Brad said. How much are you willing to spend? I know PPE has there Iron heads out now as well. If the heads are in good shape, Maybe invest in those. I don't know what the threaded sleeve option cost to add to them but you would still be under a new set of heads. If I went aftermarket, It would likely be the fleece offerings.

Threaded cups are about ~$1100 with tool/tap. If someone buy's threaded cups in today's age it better be because they're used ported OEM heads. Beyond that situation, threaded cups I think are a thing of the past.

Since I just got the truck and it has 200k, there's a lot of assumptions and unknowns. I know that with my LMM (tuned almost right away) I was the only owner. At 150k when I did heads, the machine shop laughed at me and said he barely touched them for flatness and nothing else was required. I shouldn't think anyone else cared for this truck like I care for my trucks!

As for cost, I'm already into this truck for more than it'll ever be worth and that's OK. I didn't buy it to flip it in the future. I'll keep it forever or damned near. I would have kept the LMM if not for circumstances being what they were.

I had dismissed the PPE cast iron heads early on, but now I see that they come with upgraded springs. Hmm. The cost isn't as terrible with that consideration. I'll do some more homework on them.

I need to decide how important the cups are. If I decide they are an issue for me to worry about, I will go with new cast heads. If not, I'll pull mine and take them to the machine shop.

Thanks for the continued education

Personally I think PPE's heads are a meh value. They really don't do anything better other than help blow your back out and help lighten your wallet over a set of aluminum heads. The OEM heads don't fail due to their material alloy.

The cost difference is about the same if you were to buy a quality valve spring and place it onto the new fleece heads. I do not know who's spring PPE is rebranding either. I know XDP and Industrial rebrand the Manton springs. The PPE retainer doesn't look like Manton/XDP/Industrial or SoCal.

 

[1FastBrick]

For reference, mine was 226k miles I believe and I have no maintenance records on it. I was going to reseal the engine so initially I wasn't bothered by anything until I tore it down... It appears to have ingested liquid at some point as it pitted those 5 valves and there was pitting in 2 of the cylinder walls. For all intensive purposes it ran and had no blow by. It was wrecked, and I bought it as a complete doner to swap into my LLY. The lower pan had puncture in it and the cooling system was not fully hooked up so I couldn't run it long to get it fully up to temp to check balance rates or anything else. It was at least able to drive up and back off the trailer. Also had 2 dead batteries.