Cummis Swap

TYREBOYZ_DEMAXIN

The Tire Frier
Jun 13, 2007
250
0
0
Barnesville OH
now i know this is a Duramax Board and i'm probalily not in the right section for this but what all should problems i expect from doing a Cummins swap into a 1987 Chevy 2500 4X4 with a 14bolt rearend and looking at some bigger HP in the4 future.will my 5SP tranny bolt to a Cummins or should i buy a 12V along with the 5SP tranny or a Automatic,also will the frame hold the Cummins?
 

SmokeShow

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2006
6,818
34
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Lawrenceburg, KY
Been done hundreds of times. There's even some selling kits with engine mounts and new cross members that you'll need.

As for the 5spd, I'd go with the nv4500. They were in some of the newer model (like the 88-98) GM trucks and of course behind the Cummins in the 12valve Dodge trucks. IIRC, the only difference is the bell housing and the input shaft. Dodge input shaft was larger and you'd want to go even larger than that if you turn the truck up more than 400rwhp IMO. I can't remember for certain but I'm pretty sure the nv4500 will bolt to an NP205. May need an adaptor but I can't remember for sure.

As for the frame and such in the ol' square body GM, I'm not sure. Like I said, several have done this and I haven't heard of any pretzels. HOWEER, depending on the intended use of this truck, like truck pulling, you may want reinforce the frame cause they aren't nearly as heavy-duty as modern frames. If you don't know, you'll want to DEFINITELY reinforce the frame where the steering pump attaches to the frame and add a support there as well. That part of the frame is prone to cracking regardless. There are several companies that sell the plates and supports to weld in. pirate4x4.com will be your friend. ;) I HIGHLY recommend you get on there for virtually anything drivetrain and suspension related.


As you'll notice in my sig., I'm doing a duramax in the same vintage truck and am worried about the frame because mine's gonna be a puller. That said, I am considering doing a "body swap" if I can find the right donor truck rather than swapping a duramax et al into the older frame. The modern chassis is just soooo much stronger, I am familiar with them as far as pulling goes and IMO, at the power level I'll be at (2.5 class truck), they transfer power to the ground better/easier.


Back to the Cummins swap though... In searching the web, you'll find there are a couple of "methods" to doing the swap. Some require notching of the frame on the pass. side due to the low mounting of the AC pump on the Dodge/Cummins. There is another way to do it using a bracket that is an oe part for Cummins that mounts the AC pump up higher. There's also a couple of ways to do the engine mounts... IIRC the Box trucks that came with the cummins have a "rake" to them front to back so that they fit. MANY people use these as it lowers the amount of issue with clearance. HOWEVER, I don't think I'd do it that way. I'd run a 4-6" lift up front (it'll compress a considerable amount with the Cummins in there) and have the engine a little lower between the frame rails. This keeps you some trans. tunnel clearance, firewall clearance and the lift keeps the engine off the front diff. ;)


Like I said, if you do some digging, you'll find LOTS and LOTS of info. out there for this. I know because I've considered doing the Cummins in mine because it should be easier and cheaper. I just can't do it though because I wouldn't ever be AS satisified with the truck. Best of luck. I'll look for some good links and post them up....


There's my $0.02
 

TYREBOYZ_DEMAXIN

The Tire Frier
Jun 13, 2007
250
0
0
Barnesville OH
thanks so much for that info,now i'm realy considering buying a wrecked first gen cummins and swaping bodys..thanks again gives me lots of ideas and some reason to spend some cash.
 

SmokeShow

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2006
6,818
34
48
42
Lawrenceburg, KY
if you do that (I wouldn't) at least get a 91+ cause they'll be intercooled. Older than that and they aren't. I say I wouldn't do that cause its a swap to the same generation of design as the square body chevy - not as good as newer models.

If body swap is up your alley there's a 94 2wd dodge Reb cab lb on comp with 5spd for 3500. Iirc its in OH also. That'd be auch better donor and wouldn't take much to make the 2wd trans 4wd.

Good luck and keep us posted!
 

rushingbc

< I drive slow trucks
Sep 3, 2006
139
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0
Beaufort, SC
im working on a '96 12v swap in to a 77 one ton crew cab right now. im putting a 47rh on it. i went with Goerend for a transmission and was able to swap him a 4wd core for a 2wd transmission, so that may work the other way too.

im in the beginnings right now, just built my motor mounts and trans cross member, and have them both sitting in the truck right now. mine has to be all 'custom' because the truck used to have a Cat 3208 NA in it...... :rolleyes:
 

rushingbc

< I drive slow trucks
Sep 3, 2006
139
0
0
Beaufort, SC
oh, and the 96-98 p-pumped 12v's have the biggest pumps in them. one out of a standard trans truck is the biggest, but a pump from an auto truck will make it happen with a few mods too.
 

TYREBOYZ_DEMAXIN

The Tire Frier
Jun 13, 2007
250
0
0
Barnesville OH
...i found a 95 or 96(fogot)12V CTD along with a tranny but not yet sure if i just want to buy a dodge and swap bodys yet...thanks again for all the info.
it will be a couple of months by the times its done since this is our busy season for our tire shops and working 6 days a week with 60 hours a week realy cuts down on personal time..
 

rushingbc

< I drive slow trucks
Sep 3, 2006
139
0
0
Beaufort, SC
i know how it is, having no set hours at work means we get used and abused :eek:. my truck will be painfully slow too. good luck with it
 

NukleusX

Stuck in a P7100 world.
if you want a site with a lot of members, with some good swaps and info, post up questions or concerns over at TDG, a friend of mine there has a VE pump cummins swap into his 88 chevy k3500; his brother has a cummins swapped f350, as well as a cummins stingray vette thats a work in progress... and they got more swaps goin than that even...

more than a few other members over there i know of with swaps as well.
 

z79outlaw

New member
Apr 20, 2007
793
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0
37
Salem WI
http://www.dieseltowingresource.com/showthread.php?t=2290

Here is my current swap in progress. I had a 98 Silverado with a 6.5 and NV4500 mated to a borg-warner t-case. I purchased a complete 96 12v motor out of an auto truck, with a 180 pump, but I had to drive to ohio to get it. I found a bellhousing from a junk yard in MS, and had it shipped to me, and ordered a SBC 3850 DD feramic from CodyN on this site, along with the hydrualic upgrades, and the 1-3/8" input shaft. Depending on what direction you want to go with your truck and what donor you have is the determining factor of whether you should by a donor truck or just the motor. I was a step ahead of the game due to my trans just needing a bellhousing, input, and hydraulic upgrades. But if you wanted to due a auto, with the dodge trans you'd be miles ahead of the game with donor truck. The NV4500 are pretty easy to source, so if you wanted to run a manual you may be better to just purchase stuff seperately. If your picky about your build your best building your own mounts, as the ones autoworld and other places sell, put the motor where they think it should be, which may differ from where you want to put it. I wanted mine as far to the firewall and as low as possible to I build my own mounts. I took me a good day, but I'm really happy with the results and it cost me nothing, but a few metal cutting wheels and welding rod. Look to spend at least $300 for pre-fabs. With the 87 body style you'd be miles ahead to just by some 2nd gen motor mounts and adapt them to your needs.
 

NukleusX

Stuck in a P7100 world.
750cc? thats it? better step up to a sigma pump, and flow like 1200cc (see recent issue of DP)

check piers, industrial, etc, sites for your plunger sizes/pump specs, if i had to guess the average for these pumps is what you guessed...

alls i know is when i do my motor build im not going with any insane pump... least not yet... :D
 

NukleusX

Stuck in a P7100 world.
well the thing is (read like... last diesel power) the stoopid pump is based on a p7100 core, and IIRC the sigma pump is a pump off of a completely different motor, which leads me to believe it is not the same pump. granted they are the same style if i had to guess everything is just massive internally in the sigmas.

its kinda like that one east coast (i think its where it pulls) powerstroke that has a V-pump (v style gear driven inline pump) off of a completely different motor...

all this talk though of these pricey/heavy fueling pumps and setups would not really be ideal for any type of truck used as a DD just keep in mind. if you were to build a puller or racer then maybe....
 
Jun 28, 2007
3,259
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NE Pa
The stupid pump can be had for about 3g and can be run on the street, the sigma is about twice as much and is WAY too much fuel for anything on the street.....but I'd still drive it on the street :D
 

NukleusX

Stuck in a P7100 world.
im not sure if im going to go with a built pump or just do governer spring (allows higher fuelable rpms), and delivery valves; both jobs i can do on my own, when i do my build...

prob will be cheaper to just do my own thing, and if im not getting as much fuel as i desire, step it up from there...