LB7: Can't get it to start.

PJank

New member
Jul 26, 2019
11
0
0
Beach Park IL.
LB7 no start

Could be, truck just past 260000 and I've read that the pumps tend to start failing about 250000. Still wondering why when I pump the prime plunger I get air out of the fuel return, I thought there was a valve that prevented that.
If it is the cp3 glad it happened now, was supposed to leave for a road trip in a couple of weeks would've sucked if it happened on the trip.
Have to see if I can get it scanned by my friends mechanic.
If it is the cp3 which route should I take, new, rebuilt and by whom?
 

Burn Down

Hotrodder
Sep 14, 2008
7,093
28
48
Boise Idaho
Sounds like the fuel filter head has bad seals and is allowing air into the fuel. When was the last time it was rebuilt or replaced?
 

PJank

New member
Jul 26, 2019
11
0
0
Beach Park IL.
LB7 no start

Haven't done it yet, parts on order, looks easy so I thought I'd do it anyway. I hope that fixes the problem but I'm still gonna get the CP3 checked. Hate to be stranded on my road trip.
 

PJank

New member
Jul 26, 2019
11
0
0
Beach Park IL.
lb7 no start

Got the kit and rebuilt the filter head, pumped it up also changed the fuel lines off the fitter head. Pumped it up and am getting good pressure to the shrader valve, borrowed my friend's mechanics snap on scanner. The truck showed no codes except a brake code that the mechanic attributed to pulling the truck home with a tow rope (1 mile).
This is what I got: DES FRP REG (mA) 794- 1491 while cranking
FRP REG CMD (mA) 3-1727
FUEL RATE (mm3) -1
ACTUAL ACT FRP (mPA) 3-23 up to 50 while cranking
FRP REG CMD (mA) 766-1141
FRP REG CMD % 25
FRP REG FLO 40000
MAF (gm/sec) 2.32
And finally a Cam ref missed 2
Also of note is the batteries are 4 years old and will not hold for long, during the duration of the tests to get these numbers they failed. When that happened I got two codes, P0700 and P1631, the mechanic (Ford) thought this was due to the loss of power from what he knows of Fords.
Hope this can lead to a solution, Thanx in advance I appreciate the suggestions so far.
 

zakkb787

<that’s not me...
Sep 29, 2014
2,340
52
48
Granite Falls NC
Got the kit and rebuilt the filter head, pumped it up also changed the fuel lines off the fitter head. Pumped it up and am getting good pressure to the shrader valve, borrowed my friend's mechanics snap on scanner. The truck showed no codes except a brake code that the mechanic attributed to pulling the truck home with a tow rope (1 mile).
This is what I got: DES FRP REG (mA) 794- 1491 while cranking
FRP REG CMD (mA) 3-1727
FUEL RATE (mm3) -1
ACTUAL ACT FRP (mPA) 3-23 up to 50 while cranking
FRP REG CMD (mA) 766-1141
FRP REG CMD % 25
FRP REG FLO 40000
MAF (gm/sec) 2.32
And finally a Cam ref missed 2
Also of note is the batteries are 4 years old and will not hold for long, during the duration of the tests to get these numbers they failed. When that happened I got two codes, P0700 and P1631, the mechanic (Ford) thought this was due to the loss of power from what he knows of Fords.
Hope this can lead to a solution, Thanx in advance I appreciate the suggestions so far.

Looks to me like your cp3 is dead.
 

DAVe3283

Heavy & Slow
Sep 3, 2009
3,681
236
63
Boise, ID, USA
23 MPa should be enough to start. I like to see 30 MPa, but 23 should be enough to fire the injectors.

The 2 missed cam reference pulses is probably the real issue here. The ECU needs to know the cam position to determine which cylinder to fire, and if it isn't getting good cam + crank data, it won't be able to start.

I would look at the wiring to the cam & crank sensors, and make sure it is visually OK at a minimum. You can also pull the cam + crank sensors out and gently try to wiggle the reluctor wheels with a screwdriver. Be careful not to bend the teeth even a little, as that can cause missed pulses. You are just making sure the wheels haven't come loose. But these trucks are very sensitive to power quality, so this could be a false fail due to old batteries.


I would get 2 new batteries, fully charge them, then try scanning it again while cranking. Crank for the full 15 seconds the ECU allows (hold the key at start until the ECU disables the starter). What we want to see on the scanner is:

  • Actual rail pressure rise to 25+ MPa and stay there the whole time.
    • With no air in the system, it should hit 25+ MPa in half a second.
    • With a little air, 2-5 seconds to hit pressure isn't concerning.
  • 0 missed crank pulses. Must stay at zero.
  • 0 missed cam pulses. Must stay at zero.
  • Main injector pulse rise to over 400 us and stay there.
    • It should jump from 0 to 400+ (exact amount depends on coolant temperature) all at once. This happens when the ECU achieves cam+crank sync.
    • It should happen very quickly, within 1 engine rotation, 2 at the most.
  • ECU voltage >= 10 volts while cranking.
    • I have had trucks start as low as 8 volts while cranking, but you really should see 10+ volts. With brand new batteries, I would expect 11-11.5 volts as read by the ECU while cranking.
If you have all those criteria met, the engine should start. Any security/anti-theft issue will allow a start, then shut the engine down after ~3 seconds of runtime. This is assuming you have good compression, etc., of course. Run the test above, and have someone watch for smoke out the tailpipe. If it meets all the criteria to start and is smoking out the exhaust, there may be a mechanical issue.
 
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PJank

New member
Jul 26, 2019
11
0
0
Beach Park IL.
LB7 no start

I went and got two new batteries (Costco @ 2 for $180 800cca, 1/2 the price of Autozone). Examined the wiring on the drivers side, the shielding came apart in my hand, wires seemed alright. So I pumped it up and gave it a shot. It didn't start, waited a few seconds and it fired up. Let it run till I was done washing the truck. Turned it off, waited and tried it again and it started. took it for a test drive and it ran better than before, engine was running hotter around 190 and steady there (thermostat needed changing). Hardly any smoke idling but going to my buddies mechanic and seeing what the injectors are doing.
So it started three times now, have to see what it does in the morning.
Seems to me it was the combination of a bad filter head sucking air and weak batteries.
Thank you all for the help, I hope my experience with this truck can help others with a similar problem.