2013 LML Reverse Only, No forward

[PureHybrid]

Never seen a stator pull straight out like that.

On the friction plates I'd use them if they aren't glazed over. A couple thousandth will scrub off just from the initial break in

 

[kyledeg4]

Well, we have now! Talked to a close friend who works at a diesel perf shop and builds a lot of these units said same thing, he has only seen them twisted not pulled out. I found 1 other thread on the internet about having one walk out of the splines.

https://www.dieselplace.com/threads/allision-wont-shift-into-drive-but-reverse-works.423261/page-2

Strange, I put it in my press and pushed it back in, it was still a decent press to get it to move back. I think 4 1/2" long carefully heat controlled tig welds around the splines would be a nice touch to help me sleep at night. Kind of like how I weld the 6l80 35R drums to ensure they don't crack..

 

[TheBac]

Congrats on finding the issue, sucks when its not a "common" problem, so you've really got to analyze everything like that.

Id replace it. That link -- there are a lot of old names I recognize and wonder what happened to them.

 

[Bdsankey]

Personally, if it walked out I would throw that stator away. I've seen 1 unit pull out and all the rest have been twisted. You could likely press out that existing nose piece and replace it with a brand new one but they're roughly the cost of a good used stator.

As for reusing frictions, if they're warn unevenly, they're garbage. A few thousandths rubbed off isn't an issue as that easily occurs on break-in. It's one of those things that you have to use judgment on.

If you post some pics we can give some advise.

 

[PureHybrid]

Do you brake boost it a lot? Never would have thought the stator in the converter would pull on the tube like that, but obviously it's possible.

If you like trying things out, I suppose pulling the tube and measuring how much of an interference you've got will give you an idea if it'll hold. You'd probably have to end up knurling the tube, little coat of green retaining compound, and tig welding it like you said might work. Worth the hassle? Maybe not, but then again a new / used stock one and you've always got that rolling around in your mind of the last failure... ???

 

[kyledeg4]

I am one of those people who always hits the "Never/Uncommon" problem bullseye, every damn time lol. Yes, there's a lot of people that have come and gone most of y'all posting here I have been lurking for years lol. So, thanks for all the info!

It's hard for me to tell if glazed, ill post up some friction pictures here in the future. Most of my alto C3s/c4s are .081-.085 and look ok. My xcaliber c3/c4s are all .083. Has anybody else tried those xcaliber brand clutches? Can't decide about putting in used altos v. xcaliber in c3/c4. Also have GPZ and ALTO c1/c2s...

I think the fate of this stator is going to be me pressing it out and making sure the splines are in fact not twisted at all. If they are straight, I am going to experiment with it. I grabbed a used stator off of ebay for 150$ to play with as well so I will experiment with the worse condition unit. What causes the twisting or walking out exactly? I talked to suncoast and they suggested to press it out and reassemble with retaining compound. I think that would probably hold it enough with no need for a weld or pin. Retaining compound is no joke, have used it before with great results. I may even end up pushing the one out of the unit I purchased and using some retaining compound on it for peace of mind and also doing it for any other builds in the future.

No brake boosting here maybe 3-5 small rolling burnouts more like just no traction type fun not braking it at all to spin them up. I did have a pretty small amount of defuel in my trans tune and it shifted seamless so I'm sure that didn't help me at all. Made some edits since truck has been down to hopefully make her live a bit longer on this go around.

140k mile core should be delivered Friday so I will be overhauling it and putting my c3/c4 xcaliber clutch powerpacks in it along with a prx kit, alto c1+c2. I'll take my 260k original trans and do a hodge podge with leftover "good" parts and my experimental stator. 16 C1 GPZ, 7C2 GPZ, alto g3s in a stock stack for c3/c4 and already has a prx kit in it. I'm curious as to how c3/c4 would hold up in stock pack configuration with upgraded clutches as it seems the thinner ones are more prone to warping. Of course it would be my "backup" trans.

 

[PureHybrid]

As far as twisting a stator tube, the stator inside the converter will be loaded up against it during high differential speeds, as soon as you start getting into fluid coupling the stator will free wheel. That's why I asked about hard launches, could potentially be from the stator design too if it's aggressive.

I've never personally used the xcalliber c3 frictions, Brad seems to like them but I've also heard of some harsh shifting characteristics. Please post your feedback as I might end up trying a set out. Some builders seem to shy away from the GPZ in the c1 pack, I've never had an issue but I'm not building high end full billet units for the local kids either.

And what were you meaning by a stock stack in the c3? You running an OE top plate and 5 frictions? Should be fine with .085 steels and frictions, leaves about .050 for clearance
EDIT: I skipped the whole LML transmission thing... You'd need to run an 01-10 thickness plate to get that stackup

 

[Bdsankey]

I am one of those people who always hits the "Never/Uncommon" problem bullseye, every damn time lol. Yes, there's a lot of people that have come and gone most of y'all posting here I have been lurking for years lol. So, thanks for all the info!

It's hard for me to tell if glazed, ill post up some friction pictures here in the future. Most of my alto C3s/c4s are .081-.085 and look ok. My xcaliber c3/c4s are all .083. Has anybody else tried those xcaliber brand clutches? Can't decide about putting in used altos v. xcaliber in c3/c4. Also have GPZ and ALTO c1/c2s...

Xcalliber C3/C4 have been great for me. Either the Xcalliber or used Alto will be fine IMO. I've used quite a few Xcalliber XX clutches in both 6 and 7 friction C3 setups with great results. I only do 6 frictions now but tend to stick to SCZ195 frictions for my C3/C4s.

I think the fate of this stator is going to be me pressing it out and making sure the splines are in fact not twisted at all. If they are straight, I am going to experiment with it. I grabbed a used stator off of ebay for 150$ to play with as well so I will experiment with the worse condition unit. What causes the twisting or walking out exactly? I talked to suncoast and they suggested to press it out and reassemble with retaining compound. I think that would probably hold it enough with no need for a weld or pin. Retaining compound is no joke, have used it before with great results. I may even end up pushing the one out of the unit I purchased and using some retaining compound on it for peace of mind and also doing it for any other builds in the future.

No brake boosting here maybe 3-5 small rolling burnouts more like just no traction type fun not braking it at all to spin them up. I did have a pretty small amount of defuel in my trans tune and it shifted seamless so I'm sure that didn't help me at all. Made some edits since truck has been down to hopefully make her live a bit longer on this go around.

140k mile core should be delivered Friday so I will be overhauling it and putting my c3/c4 xcaliber clutch powerpacks in it along with a prx kit, alto c1+c2. I'll take my 260k original trans and do a hodge podge with leftover "good" parts and my experimental stator. 16 C1 GPZ, 7C2 GPZ, alto g3s in a stock stack for c3/c4 and already has a prx kit in it. I'm curious as to how c3/c4 would hold up in stock pack configuration with upgraded clutches as it seems the thinner ones are more prone to warping. Of course it would be my "backup" trans.

For anything stock fuel/air, 4x G3 in C3 will easily hold with added pressure. C4 is 6 friction to begin with.

 

[kyledeg4]

Awesome thanks for the info guys!

I will post up when I get it all back together. Going alto c1/2 and xcaliber 3/4. Prx yellow spring no shim with tan spring. Hoping to live a little behind compounds and some iditot with a laptops tuning. Will report back on setup, I do favor an agressive shift so I may lean towards liking them if thats the case...

 

[Bdsankey]

Awesome thanks for the info guys!

I will post up when I get it all back together. Going alto c1/2 and xcaliber 3/4. Prx yellow spring no shim with tan spring. Hoping to live a little behind compounds and some iditot with a laptops tuning. Will report back on setup, I do favor an agressive shift so I may lean towards liking them if thats the case...

I wouldn't say I think they (xcalliber) shift aggressively. They shift like a quality clutch should.

 

[kyledeg4]

Excited to try them out and see. Got my 140k mile core in thursday and pulled it apart, looks real good inside. I have some track motorcycles to prep this weekend, hopefully I can get it built and back in the next few weeks. Really missing driving cocaine cowgirl.

What are yall running clearance wise?

I was at .080 on c1, .068 c2, .058 c3 and .052 c4

 

[PureHybrid]

With brand new frictions? Sounds good. If it was mine I'd open the c4 up to match, I always target .060" but a little under won't hurt obviously

 

[Bdsankey]

Excited to try them out and see. Got my 140k mile core in thursday and pulled it apart, looks real good inside. I have some track motorcycles to prep this weekend, hopefully I can get it built and back in the next few weeks. Really missing driving cocaine cowgirl.

What are yall running clearance wise?

I was at .080 on c1, .068 c2, .058 c3 and .052 c4

These are fairly reasonable. I tend to run a tight C3 and a little looser C4 but those are well within serviceable limits on new frictions.

 

[kyledeg4]

Well, confirmed she is back to normal. Got it back in about 1.5 weeks ago . She beat up a mustang on the way into the city saturday night and didnt leave any important parts along the highway so ill take that as good news...

Again thank you all for the information shared!

Ended up around the same clearanaces I had posted before give or take a few thou.

What are thoughts on c3 oiling now adays? Have heard its not needed anymore with the new clutch tech.. I am on the side of theres never too much lubrication. Be it for heat management or actual lubricity purposes.

 

[Bdsankey]

Well, confirmed she is back to normal. Got it back in about 1.5 weeks ago . She beat up a mustang on the way into the city saturday night and didnt leave any important parts along the highway so ill take that as good news...

Again thank you all for the information shared!

Ended up around the same clearanaces I had posted before give or take a few thou.

What are thoughts on c3 oiling now adays? Have heard its not needed anymore with the new clutch tech.. I am on the side of theres never too much lubrication. Be it for heat management or actual lubricity purposes.

Put it this way, I drill every transmission that I can with C3 oiling holes but I use a flat PTO cover with my logo laser etched on it. I also agree, it can't hurt a thing to do it.

On comp units/units that will get loads of abuse I advocate for the return cooler line fed C3 oiler style like many out there sell and build (including our own).