Brett Deutsch runs his first 7 sec pass in "The Mistress" 69 C10 Duramax powered truck! Technical thread for the true gearheads!

[MarkBroviak]

I figured I should start a thread on this truck to have an open conversation how and what we are doing to make this possible. As most of you know, we have been at it for a very long time with this truck. Brett got in contact with me about the project he was working on 12 years ago and I was definitely excited to be involved in the project and look where we have come over all these years. This truck has set record after record over the years and has won some of the biggest events in diesel motorsports over the years too! The combination has changed a bunch over the years from the stock motor running in the 11.20's with my 68vgt in 2010 at 5100lbs to the this 7sec 3800lb beast you see today. Brett and I have tried and learned a lot over the years and this thread is going to be an inside look at what it actually takes to make this work. I'm going to treat it like a rolling blog so to speak as a give back to the original group we have been apart of for so long. I hope you all enjoy it as much as we have! Stay tuned!

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWd5sjvaFds

 

[Chevy1925]

i was REALLY hoping you would make a thread on this truck. Just that little bit of talk in the 1/4 mile thread would get lost in a hurry.

Im looking forward to this!

New guys, if you read this, set a subscription to it. This truck is one of the few left still going that continues to push the envelope and development on making diesels faster, specially the duramax. I know Brett has a love/hate relationship with this thing but its such a piece of history like many others.

 

[MarkBroviak]

i was REALLY hoping you would make a thread on this truck. Just that little bit of talk in the 1/4 mile thread would get lost in a hurry.

Im looking forward to this!

New guys, if you read this, set a subscription to it. This truck is one of the few left still going that continues to push the envelope and development on making diesels faster, specially the duramax. I know Brett has a love/hate relationship with this thing but its such a piece of history like many others.

That was it in a nut shell, I think it has earned this spot in the light and we are more than happy to share the experiences we have been through with it. It will be a great thread I promise!!!

 

[MarkBroviak]

This is the post from the day or so after we made the 7.28 pass!

Well, we did it today! Took a couple tries to get down the track but third time was the charm and Brett went a new personal best across the board with the 69C10!!! This makes it the quickest DMax door car/truck on the planet and he let off early!!! It is still 3800lbs and rocking a solid filled factory cast iron block with the Precision ProMod102 turbo and 4kits on a progressive controller. This truck has 6's in it as it was defueling itself because it was against the egt limiter and caused it to drift hard to the left so he left off around 1000ft and rolled to this personal best! So proud to be a small part of Brett's team and get to help make this stuff happen!!!

 

[MarkBroviak]

rfletes79 said:
Wow, so badass. Happy for you and your team!!! Put it in the 6’s!! And over 188, tired of that other guy.

Let’s talk about the pecker….. wtf?? How long is it, how long has it been on?? Obviously I know it’s allowed. Not saying anything bad about it. Just curious cause it really stands out.


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This was Brett's response for the ProMod equalizer per NHRA rules(We really didn't need it but it was an easy way to pick up a touch of time since his truck is so different that the normal cars that the rule was made for to keep the playing field level)

Haha. That is something I did for Mark. I made it just for this record run. NHRA rule states that from your front spindle to the very front of the vehicle can’t extend out past 44”. My truck was at 30” so my pecker is 14” long!!!! Also at NHRA tracks the finish line beam is at 5” off the ground. My truck sits higher then 5” so it wasn’t breaking the beam until my tires crossed. NHRA says a vehicle can be as low as 3” off the track so I made it 3” off the track.

 

[MarkBroviak]

Some serious technical data for you real gearheads, Brent let off at 6.5sec into the run at 182mph and coasted to the 7.28/175mph with a solid 1.43seconds during the run where it was defueled hard(40-80mg pulled out of it)because of the egt limiter that is in place to help keep it alive!

I plan to dive into this data with you guys extensively to better help everyone understand what I am trying to explain here.

 

[MarkBroviak]

rfletes79 said:
Can more nitrous help with egt temps??


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Unfortunately no the nitrous isn't helping the egt's because it is increasing the HP at the same time so it isn't doing anything for it(case in point, when it yanks the fueling back to bring egt's down we aren't pulling any nitrous back and the egt's are barely responding to it, I'm talking 250-400hp conservatively worth of fuel being removed and egt's hardly budge 200*). We are good from 4500-5200rpms but the 5200-6000rpms is where we get in trouble with it. EGT's and drive climb and boost drops so we are looking into what we can do to get it to stay happy upstairs without injecting water because I am not a fan of what it does to everything. To answer James, yes we are looking at ways to bring the heat down some without losing power. Would also like to extend the rpm range higher up like 6500rpms so we can stay in 2nd gear in the 1/8th with the current combo because it is working really well now that we have a good handle on what it wants and likes. Hope this makes sense guys!

 

[MarkBroviak]

Chevy1925 said:
do you think its a restriction on CFM from the heads or valve train? im sure hes got pretty well ported heads on that sucker. what about straight meth injected in? could do a multiport setup in the clam shells to add power (or reduce nitrous) while dropping intake temps way down

I think it is more of a restriction on the turbine side of the turbo than anything so I'm looking at goin bigger on it(Just got off the phone with Precision on a possible custom build for his setup to get us where we need to be) and possibly testing meth injection to see how it works/affects things. Works for the gas guys so I would think it should work for us too!

 

[MarkBroviak]

On Brett's C10 we are running a Bosch Motorsports 15.1 Standalone ECU with the Bosch dash display all setup and purchased through Exergy Performance through us here at Danville Performance with Exergy and us helping on some of it. Phil Devries was the engineer at Exergy that worked closely with on these projects and he setup all the background info and features in Brett's system. Fueling is Exergy 300%injectors with a pair of reverse rotation 12mmcp3's. Since then it has been Brett, my oldest son Kyler and I making the decisions on what we do in the tuning on it. When Brett switched to big tires and longer gearing in the trany after our ProMod win in ODSS at UCC (because we ran the majority of that event without 2nd gear is it was smoked by turning more rpms in first and skip shifting basically) we really had to figure the truck out at Schied's and made big strides every pass with it to get what we needed out of it. We were able to get a new best in the first round eliminations at Schied's of a [email protected] on a hot greasy track with a slow 1.213 60ft! After that pass we knew we were moving in the right direction with it! Here is what that log looks like...

If you notice there is a lot of "noise" during the staging when it is on the transbrake that I didn't care for that I wanted to get cleaned up. After a couple of weeks I had to stew on it and what we had learned I made a plan for the next outing with it. We missed the Rudy's event and the Florida event so Brett wanted to hit up the Byron event that we used to go to at the end of the year back when we ran 1/4mile stuff. Brett was crunching the numbers and figured we should be able to beat Wade's S10 times from back in the day even though we where quite a bit heavier with us at 3800lbs and his was around 2800lbs! I was game if Brett was cause I love the big speed stuff myself even though most of this industry has dropped to 1/8mile only racing.

Well it was a cold day at Byron and we guessed wrong on the track because first pass it rode the wheelie bars hard and was shaking the tires so hard it broke the wheelie bar and kicked the tires. So we made a bunch of adjustments, since we couldn't weld the bar, to try and keep it from riding the bars hard and that didn't work as it kicked the tires as soon as we ran out of front suspension travel on it. So for the third pass we knew how to fix it and it worked! It was our fastest pass across the board with it. The 1.10 60ft is almost impossible with something this heavy but it was on a mission!
Ok, so here is what the datalog looks like on the 7.28 pass. I will explain more of this log later for you guys!

 

[Chevy1925]

mark, do you guys run a suspension exension/compression sensor on the back end?

 

[MarkBroviak]

mark, do you guys run a suspension exension/compression sensor on the back end?

No we don't currently have ride height sensors but is possible to in the future.

 

[Chevy1925]

No we don't currently have ride height sensors but is possible to in the future.

for the 60ft your cuttin, i doubt you need it. Specially if you pulled the wheelie bars and changed the suspension setup to keep the front end down. i was curious if you were using one to tune the suspension off of.

 

[MarkBroviak]

for the 60ft your cuttin, i doubt you need it. Specially if you pulled the wheelie bars and changed the suspension setup to keep the front end down. i was curious if you were using one to tune the suspension off of.

No sir, that is the one thing this truck has always been fairly good at until he lowered the rear gear for 1/8th mile racing. That's what set off the sky wheelie at Wagler's a year or two ago. Once he got the bars adjusted for that it went back to be being reliable on the leave. We keep going back to the "if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it" So when he sent the trany out to be fixed we went with longer gears in the trany and he put the bigger slicks on it to try and get it to go faster with the power we were generating and it is working really well. With these diesels the more power/torque you make the more gearing you really need to run to keep it loaded up and pissed off otherwise it just doesn't do anything but make heat and noise.

 

[gmduramax]

But Wade was doing this 10 years ago, he invented the glow plug, and helped develop the first ever injector. ?? I couldn’t help myself after seeing that Facebook post.

But seriously thank you for sharing.

 

[Chevy1925]

No sir, that is the one thing this truck has always been fairly good at until he lowered the rear gear for 1/8th mile racing. That's what set off the sky wheelie at Wagler's a year or two ago. Once he got the bars adjusted for that it went back to be being reliable on the leave. We keep going back to the "if it isn't broken, don't try to fix it" So when he sent the trany out to be fixed we went with longer gears in the trany and he put the bigger slicks on it to try and get it to go faster with the power we were generating and it is working really well. With these diesels the more power/torque you make the more gearing you really need to run to keep it loaded up and pissed off otherwise it just doesn't do anything but make heat and noise.

ive watched alot of guys struggle to get 2wd diesels to hook. im always picking everyones brain on suspension setup and what they have tried or have not. the first time i played with the height sensor, it instantly told me what to mess with and just straight surprised the hell out of me. I had a truck that just did not want to plant the ass end and would blow the tires off. it was a 4 link truck and we had what i "thought" was alot of anti-squat in the truck already in comparison to other vehicles. what i didnt consider was the length of the bars. he had some long bars in there for some reason. Anyhow, he added a height sensor and i realized right away that while the ass end was raising some per slow mo videos, it clearly wasnt enough based on the rate from the data it provided and he was out of adjustment. Thats when i really started looking for the issue and realized how long the bars were. he shorten them up a good 6-8" by moving the frame mounts back and bam, it was grabbing like it should.

gearing is definitely a big deal on diesels! Only way to get that torque workin!

 

[TheBac]

Still one of my favorite Dmax vehicles. Way to go, Brett, Mark and the crew!

 

[MarkBroviak]

Ok, for today's installment on the power management I am going to explain how the Bosch system works for us and do it in a manner that hopefully makes the most sense possible considering how complicated it actually is. So Phil set it up with a DSp5 type switch on the dash that Brett has control of the total fuel quantity used regardless of what we have in the main tune so he can turn it up or down depending on the track or what he wants to do at any given time. We tune it based on the the air fuel ratio we want to achieve and the torque quantity we want to see. 90% of the time we actually run the setup on the lean side because of the main switch setting that Brett has on the dash. What I mean by this is the truck actually wants a lot more fuel based on the air density it is producing. This is why I say there is a ton more power available that we aren't even using because it is asking for it. In a perfect world we would let it make all that it wants but this is territory that no one actually knows what it will take which is why we continue to take baby steps to try and not just scatter it everywhere. This is what makes this system so nice to use when you get it figured out. There are also egt limiters built in that when it hits 2k* it pulls the fuel back to bring the temps back down. If you look at the middle of the log at the top of second gear you will see the yellow line has a healthy drop or valley in it(also at the big end it drops off which is when it started drifting left hard on Brett because it was defueling itself hard. That is the actual fueling curve as it related to pulse width as everyone is used to dealing with. The yellow and red lines on the bottom graph is the actual egt readings and you can see how they relate the the fuel curve(egt limiter). The green line on the bottom graph is the boost and the brown is the drive pressure(Peak boost of 92psi and 120lbs of drive peak). It makes it easier to see what is happening and why it is doing what it is. We sit on the staging limter @4k rpms and it shifts at 6k rpms(rpms is the top yellow line). Also this pass we injected roughly 1300-1350Hp worth of fuel and the rest of the power comes from the nitrous kits which according to the calculators it was 650-700hp worth of spray give or take. Hope this is a nice look into it for you guys! If you have questions feel free to ask them.

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[bcdeutsch731]

Thanks Mark for starting this and sharing all the info!! Mark knows just about everything on my truck but if you guys have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[MarkBroviak]

So to further this discussion on the power management and the defueling from egt limiter and the dsp switch limiter here we go. So when Brett lets off the trans brake button he is sitting at 4k rpms and leaves on roughly 1k-1100hp and about .6sec later he is up to full fuel power of 1400hp until it defuels back down to roughly 1000hp range until the egts drop back under their limiter(this lasted for .8second) and it adds that fuel back into it. As the truck got up to 5400rpms in 3rd gear around 165mph it was back against this limiter and again pulled roughly 350hp worth of fuel out of it trying to bring the egts back down and .7sec later Brett let off of it because it was nosing over hard and trying to go left hard! The only down side to how all of this is managed is that the nitrous isn't pulled back also when the fuel is so it causes the whitish colored smoke out the pipe which looks worse than it really is. Hope this makes sense and helps!

 

[N2BRK]

I know that you aren't fond of WMI, so what about some way to start with a colder air charge to reduce EGT a touch? Ghetto fog the IC with the N2O he's already running? LOL Thanks for sharing, this is great reading!!!