Allison 5sp: thin C2's

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Where can I buy thin C2 steels WITHOUT the kolene coating on them? I'm not a fan of the kolene coated steels. My C2 drum looked great after 25K miles with the stock steels before and 7 alto clutches. I added i nthe wave plate to help smooth out my 3-4 shift and went to the kolene steels and now my drum looks like crap after 20K miles.
 
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This is why I wanted to run the non kolene coated ones. The one on the left is not a new one, it was the side against teh apply plate which isn't coated. All of the others are FRIED! None of the kolene coated steels have any burns, grooves or naything in them, but the frictions are gone. Has me scratching my head as my C3's and C4's could pass for new but have almost 50K miles on them(and the C4's have been run with a torn C4 apply piston). I certainly didn't expect to find this with 20K miles of use at roughly 400HP.
 

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Mike L.

Mike L.

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Ferm

It's not the colene steels that are hurting your drum. It's the thin steels. The drum is made from soft material and it wouldn't matter if the thin steels were colene or not. They will cut the soft drum like a knife. Thick colenes do not do this.
 
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Mike L. said:
Ferm

It's not the colene steels that are hurting your drum. It's the thin steels. The drum is made from soft material and it wouldn't matter if the thin steels were colene or not. They will cut the soft drum like a knife. Thick colenes do not do this.
Click to expand...

The other reason I was going to run them was the side that wasn't against a kolene coated steel was like new, every other one was shot. I just don't understand how I did this at my HP level. It's never slipped or limped ever, and I was shocked when I seen this. Every other clutch pack in it is still like new, even the C4's that had been run with a torn apply piston. My first time around I used the stock steels with 7 ALTO clutches, and after 25K miles they still looked good. I only swappped over to this setup to get a wave plate. I'm seriously considering putting my od pack back in as it looks new even though it has 25K miles on it.
 
03spoolindmax

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LB7Duramax01 said:
If it was mine I would ditch the wave plate.
Click to expand...

I was told by an Allison builder that the new raybestos clutches in the gmax kits are not running wave plates like they did with the alto clutches for the c2s.

Are the new clutches and steels holding better and more evenly that they don't need wave plates?
 
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03spoolindmax said:
Is there a reason the c3 and c4 pistons tear or is it installation error?
Click to expand...

Mike has talked about it in the past, just seems to happen at random. This trans has been togetehr for 3 years and 20K trouble free miles, and now this and the torn C4 apply piston. Guess it isn't so bad as a seal kit and a C2 pack isn't that bad, just see no reason to have to do it on a low HP low mile trans.
 
Mike L.

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03spoolindmax said:
I've been hearing a lot of good reviews on these gpz frictions. Makes me want to ditch my gmax 5 altos.



Is there a reason the c3 and c4 pistons tear or is it installation error?
Click to expand...

The pistons rip because of manufacturer error. I was told this by an Allison engineer.
Nothing wrong with Alto C2 clutches unless you use the thin steels.
The C2 wave plate was my idea 8 years ago and it worked to slow down the C2 ramp up not allowing the C3 clutches to release on the 3/4 shift.

There is a lot more to this story that I won't get into now.
You have to remember that we were in a learning mode in the early years with the Allison. As horse power went up we had to change the way we were thinking. More is not always better.
 
03spoolindmax

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Mike L. said:
The pistons rip because of manufacturer error. I was told this by an Allison engineer.
Nothing wrong with Alto C2 clutches unless you use the thin steels.
The C2 wave plate was my idea 8 years ago and it worked to slow down the C2 ramp up not allowing the C3 clutches to release on the 3/4 shift.

There is a lot more to this story that I won't get into now.
You have to remember that we were in a learning mode in the early years with the Allison. As horse power went up we had to change the way we were thinking. More is not always better.
Click to expand...

So has this manufacturer error been fixed or is it still luck of the draw?

Are the thin c2 steels what come in the alto kits or do they have to be ordered seperate?

Any reason they're not running the wave plates in the new raybestos clutches. Is it just not needed with the new design of the clutches and steels.

Sorry for the questions. Just trying to expand my Allison knowledge.
 
Evan@InglewoodTrans

Evan@InglewoodTrans

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03spoolindmax said:
I was told by an Allison builder that the new raybestos clutches in the gmax kits are not running wave plates like they did with the alto clutches for the c2s.

Are the new clutches and steels holding better and more evenly that they don't need wave plates?
Click to expand...

You don't have to run a wave plate with Alto clutches either. Mike just explained the purpose of the wave plate.
 
THEFERMANATOR

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I got it back together with the RAYBESTOS clutches(7 frictions and 7 stock steels, came out to .075 clearance), and these are some grabby suckers. I never had it take this long for the 3-4 shift to settle down and become even remotely civilized. I bet it took 20 3-4 shifts before it got to what I would call safe to drive it. Still waiting on it to smooth out in the upper RPM's. need to get my other TCM back in it to with the 01 OS, the 02 OS has my friggen pesky 3-2 downshift click back.
 
03spoolindmax

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Good to hear. I just ordered a new gmax kit the other day. George put me together a kit for the new trans. Can't wait to get it together and see how it does.

When I built my first trans with the gmax5 alto kit I used to have that same click on a downshift. After about 15k miles it went away. I never found out what it was but always wanted to know.
 
dmax711

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03spoolindmax said:
Good to hear. I just ordered a new gmax kit the other day. George put me together a kit for the new trans. Can't wait to get it together and see how it does.

When I built my first trans with the gmax5 alto kit I used to have that same click on a downshift. After about 15k miles it went away. I never found out what it was but always wanted to know.
Click to expand...

George is a fun guy to chat with. Very cool guy
 
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