Intermittent Fuel knock

Burn Down

Hotrodder
Sep 14, 2008
7,093
28
48
Boise Idaho
Okay, maybe someone else has had this happen or has another idea to try?

So my truck has had a weird intermittent fuel knock since the middle of last summer... It is getting worse as it would only do it once in a while, to doing it pretty much on start up now. It has no codes and I can't seem to catch it with a Tech 2... Injectors have about 45,000 miles on them. Here is a list of things I have tried.
1. Swap cam & crank sensors. checked reluctor wheel for movement with a screwdriver.
2. Swap Ficm
3. Swap Ecm
4. Other ecm had a stock tune with a different OP system, still had knock.
5. Injector return rate test, all 8 well within GM spec for return fuel.
6. Balance rates are well within spec.
7. I have tried turning one injector off at a time with the Tech 2 and waited for the knock. All 8 injectors still knocked.
8. Ran 1 gallon of 2-stroke oil through a 1/2 tank of fuel, no change in the knock.
9. Washed engine with engine running. To see if it was a short in the harness.

My theory is one injector is opening mechanically on it's own. Hence no error codes.

I built a Fuel line to block the supply fuel to one injector. I just cut the tubing out of the center and welded the ends shut. I was thinking of installing it on one injector at time and wait for the knock until... This is last resort as it is a pain in the butt with a ficm and twins in the way. But I'm running out of ideas ...

Anyone think of something else to try or had this happen to them?

I might add that it is quite loud, almost like someone took a hammer to the piston, it also puffs a cloud of white smoke out the exhaust when it does it.

Also I re-routed the harness on 2 and 7 long ago to give the wiring more slack. Wrapped each section of the harness with a rubber protector were it attaches to the engine. Wrapped the ficm mount harness with a protector. Ice picked 2 and 7. I don't feel this is a harness issue or it should have went nuts when I washed it, i think?
 

Huffy67

New member
Dec 26, 2014
270
0
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Arkansas
One of my buddies trucks had a horrible fuel knock that was fixed with new injectors.


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Burn Down

Hotrodder
Sep 14, 2008
7,093
28
48
Boise Idaho
One of my buddies trucks had a horrible fuel knock that was fixed with new injectors.


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Ya, I'm not ready to trash 8 injectors with only 45K on them. That would be last resort...

I'm going to call Exergy tomorrow and see what they think.
 

Huffy67

New member
Dec 26, 2014
270
0
0
Arkansas
If return rates and balance rates are within spec would it do any good to have them tested? Is it possible to have them tested and not find the problem?


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Burn Down

Hotrodder
Sep 14, 2008
7,093
28
48
Boise Idaho
If return rates and balance rates are within spec would it do any good to have them tested? Is it possible to have them tested and not find the problem?


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Thats what I'm afraid will happen... Spend 500 bucks for testing and they can't catch the problem either, that would suck.
 

Huffy67

New member
Dec 26, 2014
270
0
0
Arkansas
Yeah that's what I was thinking... On my buddies they only changed one injector and made a huge difference. Still had a little bit here and there, since then have put a set of 100's in it and it's quiet and smooth as can be.


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02greysixer

Active member
Jun 4, 2011
1,829
7
38
North Central FL
I chased my ass on an lbz for a week. Slight fuel knock started as intermittent and became continuous. This was on a brand new set of Bosch reman injectors with less than 50 miles on them. Wouldn't go away when disabling with tech 2. I had a couple injectors that had marginal rates cold so started by testing those. Ran perfect on the stand. Finally I pulled the rest that were all +/-1.5 and they found one overfueling at pilot. Fixed it and it was perfect.

So, yes they can have a problem that will not show up with the return test, balance rates, or power balance.
 

Burn Down

Hotrodder
Sep 14, 2008
7,093
28
48
Boise Idaho
I chased my ass on an lbz for a week. Slight fuel knock started as intermittent and became continuous. This was on a brand new set of Bosch reman injectors with less than 50 miles on them. Wouldn't go away when disabling with tech 2. I had a couple injectors that had marginal rates cold so started by testing those. Ran perfect on the stand. Finally I pulled the rest that were all +/-1.5 and they found one overfueling at pilot. Fixed it and it was perfect.

So, yes they can have a problem that will not show up with the return test, balance rates, or power balance.

Who did you send them to?
 

onebaddmaxxx

Active member
Feb 22, 2009
1,212
1
38
Cecil County Md
My lly did the same thing. It was the injectors. somedays you could drive it and never have an issue. Others....it was noisy and rattled a lot. injectors fixed it.
 

Harbin_22

Active member
Dec 4, 2010
3,858
7
38
Southern Indiana
I replaced a couple sets of LLY injectors for the same thing. I could ramp up RP and watch balance rates during. Both trucks would have at least 1 balance rate get way out, replace that injector and do the test again and another would get out, ended up replaci g full set on both trucks.
 

Burn Down

Hotrodder
Sep 14, 2008
7,093
28
48
Boise Idaho
I replaced a couple sets of LLY injectors for the same thing. I could ramp up RP and watch balance rates during. Both trucks would have at least 1 balance rate get way out, replace that injector and do the test again and another would get out, ended up replaci g full set on both trucks.

I have been able to ramp up rail and can't get anything to go out of spec... When it knocks, all the balance rates go nuts until it settles back down.

I'm going to have to just bite the bullet and send them in as they are low mileage new injectors, not remans and I don't want to junk the whole set.
 

clrussell

pro-procrastinator
Sep 23, 2013
5,907
363
83
Do you have the updated plug ins on 2&7? I've seen not having them cause this problem. I know you said you had re routed the wires on 2&7 but the wire an still break and ice picking won't help.


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baddaddition

New member
Mar 10, 2013
287
0
0
I had the same issue with my first motor and could never figure it out. My best thoughts were I had a lifter,can lobe, or pushrod not quite right.( bent,worn,ect.) Seemed to be almost a timing issue at about 1500 rpm just cruzing. Would go away under throttle. Not that that's any help or hope but I'm pulling that motor apart this week as soon as I get the turbo for my built motor and it put in. I'll check into it.
 

Burn Down

Hotrodder
Sep 14, 2008
7,093
28
48
Boise Idaho
Do you have the updated plug ins on 2&7? I've seen not having them cause this problem. I know you said you had re routed the wires on 2&7 but the wire an still break and ice picking won't help.


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I don't have the updated wiring... If the wires were broke I would have thought the sh*t would hit the fan when a hosed it down with water? Also I never get any codes tuned or stock with 2 diff. ecms...

I had the same issue with my first motor and could never figure it out. My best thoughts were I had a lifter,can lobe, or pushrod not quite right.( bent,worn,ect.) Seemed to be almost a timing issue at about 1500 rpm just cruzing. Would go away under throttle. Not that that's any help or hope but I'm pulling that motor apart this week as soon as I get the turbo for my built motor and it put in. I'll check into it.

I'm getting a big puff of white smoke so pretty sure it's fuel related, it also does it at idle, driving, wot pretty whenever it decides to have a fit.
 

clrussell

pro-procrastinator
Sep 23, 2013
5,907
363
83
I had a customer with this same intermittent problem. Never would throw an injector circuit code like normal. He replaces injectors twice thinking that was the problem. Finally convinced him to put the harnesses on it and I'm 99% sure he has not had any problems since.

Either way you should put the harnesses on. At least so you know its eliminated.. Cheaper than a set of injectors and In my opinion all llys need to have it done.


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Chevy1925

don't know sh!t about IFS
Staff member
Oct 21, 2009
21,163
4,942
113
Phoenix Az
hosing the engine down isnt a sure fire way to find broken wires in a plug. i really wouldnt see it doing much at all unless you had a ground maybe just barely not making contact. if a wire shorts, its gunna short with or without water. if you have an open, you better off shaking the harness around and moving things to see if you can get a wire to make contact again and the truck starts running right.

i would look at the harness like chris said.
 

clrussell

pro-procrastinator
Sep 23, 2013
5,907
363
83
Can't remember if you already said this or not but have you checked the wiring by the ficm?


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