Mechanical Duramax

SmokeShow

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Nov 30, 2006
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Check 'em out. Two of them be hitting the tracks soon.

Mechanical Duramax :note: this is a link to CompD.



I think it's just absolutely AWESOME that someone(s) has stepped up to the plate and doing what it takes to go to the next level at the moment with a Duramax like has been done with the Cummins and even, for god's sake, a Powerstroke. 'Bout time someones doing something BIG!!!

I'm still a believer in electronics and believe they'll be able to run in the biggest of classes with some stand alone technology and rethinking of the injection pumps (CP3s aren't gonna want any part of the RPMs needed for the mod class in pulling) but we aren't there yet.

Key notes:
Aluminum block
inline billet pump (not sigma though)
still gonna have pilot AND post injection fueling via dual feed internally and externally
titanium/vanadium alloy metals for various parts
QUAD (as in four) turbos = two twin series in parallel = twins for each bank/head!!! and 8000RPM ceiling :eek:


F'n A Right boys!!! It's on like donkey kong!!!!!! :rockon:



c-ya

p.s. who the hell is Weston (smokem)??? He seems to be inolved in many high profile builds - both Cummins and Duramax.
 
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duratothemax

<--- slippery roads
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ill reiterate what I said over there (the below is not directed at you Mitch, it was directed at the people who made the engine)

wtf how can you call that a duramax? Its not. Its a one-off custom built 6.6 liter V8 turbo diesel.

Cool I guess for the gee-whiz factor, but its not a duramax
 

UNBROKEN

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The same arguement is often made about Stroked Out and Double Overtime as they're mechanically injector Powerstrokes.

My arguement is they're still close enough to their original versions to be called by their original names.

Others disagree...it is what it is.
 

dmaxlover

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A big block Chevy with aftermarket block, heads ,and all internals is still considered a big block Chevy. I would say the Duramax would be no exception.
 

SmokeShow

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still can swing a stock Duramax crank, that's a duramax. The engine is NOT designated by the type of fuel delivery it has. All the competitive organizations still recognize it as a duramax. So even if it's "not" it doesn't matter because it's still accepted by the ones that matter.

Yes, I've had the same argument with folks over on another site about the Powerstrokes that are mechanically injected. My take is that, though drastically different than from the showroom, it's still called a Powerstroke.



Anyways, this isn't being posted to talk about the name of the engine but rather than technology and incredible feat that has been achieved by bringing this to fruition. Bottom line is, IT'S IMPRESSIVE as all get out!!! :rockon:


Now, enough of the arguing over whether its still classified as a
 

JoshH

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I'm sorry, but mechanical injection and technology don't really go together. More like a step back in my opinion.
 

duratothemax

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I thought it had a custom crank, not a stock crank? There is not one stock duramax part in it. Aftermarket rods, pistons, block, crank, injectors, injection system, turbos etc...

Is there even a single nut or bolt left that came from Moraine [ohio] on that engine???

double overtime is still a powerstroke IMO because it stil has PSD heads, block, crank etc.
 

LBZ

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I'm sorry, but mechanical injection and technology don't really go together. More like a step back in my opinion.

Mine too.

This is not a Dmax. Every Dmax I have ever seen had a steel block. I'd be willing to bet the displacement isn't even the same as the real Dmax.

I don't see the point of this kind of engine set-up other than maybe some weight savings.
It will be interesting to see this run though. It sounds like alot of work went into it and I hope it works out for the dude!:)
 

05smoker

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I can't wait to see one make it down the track. Would be nice to see a Dmax (I agree - if it swings a Dmax crank, its a Dmax as much as these other billet motors are Cummins or PSDs). I wish Chris well and hope it hits the track this season. As for Flax, I hope he has changed his ways. We don't soon forget those that screw us and he is no exception. I know he is a member on here and don't care if he reads this or not.
 

05smoker

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I'm sure it is a custom crank Ben, but the rules say it must be able to swing a stock crank still. Same as the tractor rules except they are running stock blocks.
 

SmokeShow

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crank is stock throw, just billet. As far as displacement, it's only increased if the bores have been increased, not from increased stroke.

Chris said the block is a GM casting. Jeremy told me they are aluminum... can't imagine that if you are gonna cast an alluminum block, that you'd cast it the same dimensions as the original GM steel block. Someone is either playing with words and I ain't getting it or not telling the whole story or mispoke.

For me, it's all about the crank. If I can stick a stock crank in whatever they have and it'll work, it's still a Duramax TO ME.


And YES there is ABUNDENT technology in those engines... dual external AND dual internal fed injectors. how the hell do you pull that off?!?! pilot AND post injection WITH A MECHANICAL PUMP... that's gotta be tricky and engineered perfectly to work at the level they are going with it. whatever they've done to combat crank strength and piston integrity at that level has got to be technologically advanced cause no else has a FIRM grip on it (and perhaps they may not either but I can about guarantty you they have parts for those things that not many others have yet) that I'm aware of.

Is the mechanical injection a step backwards technologically? In general, yes, I'd agree with that statement. But to say the entire thing, as a whole, is a step backwards technologically is actually obsurd IMO.



That's enough of the pissing match over the technicality of whether its a "duramax" or not. It's close enough that we can probably learn something from them that'll benefit ALL of us. Even those of us with our "real" duramax. ;)
 
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Josh2002cc

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Mine too.

This is not a Dmax. Every Dmax I have ever seen had a steel block. I'd be willing to bet the displacement isn't even the same as the real Dmax.

I don't see the point of this kind of engine set-up other than maybe some weight savings.
It will be interesting to see this run though. It sounds like alot of work went into it and I hope it works out for the dude!:)

What is your position on guys stroker kits? By the logic highlighted above in red it seems you are saying they are not duramax motors anymore? :confused:

Is a stock duramax motor with an aftermarket turbo considered a "real" duramax? How about one with rods, cam, and pistons?

I agree with the analogy of the chevy big block, to me that is the correct mindset when describing a mech. injected dmax.

Not saying I am right, just stating my opinion. Thanks
 
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McRat

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Aug 1, 2006
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While interesting from a hotrod perspective, wouldn't it have been cheaper to figure out CR technology than go through all that?

Or is someone going to try and convince me there is no advantage to running 29,000psi rail pressure?
 

UNBROKEN

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While interesting from a hotrod perspective, wouldn't it have been cheaper to figure out CR technology than go through all that?

Or is someone going to try and convince me there is no advantage to running 29,000psi rail pressure?

I'll hazard a guess that it'll be the highest HP DMax anywhere when it's done.
Chris doesn't mess around....his knowledge and skill is highly regarded as one of the best in the business.....he's not exactly new to this stuff.
Some of the most well known mod pullers in the country come out of his shop....including you buddy Scott Vorhees BBD truck, Pat.

Just think of it as breaking new ground...
 
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McRat

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I'll hazard a guess that it'll be the highest HP DMax anywhere when it's done.
Chris doesn't mess around....his knowledge and skill is highly regarded as one of the best in the business.....he's not exactly new to this stuff.
Some of the most well known mod pullers in the country come out of his shop....including you buddy Scott Vorhees BBD truck, Pat.

Just think of it as breaking new ground...

Guess we will see. That would be quite the accomplishment if he can spin 8000rpm and still make power. Not even the Audi roadrace diesel engines are spinning 8000, (6600rpm max) and they have a much shorter stroke.

At least on paper, if you can spin 8000, you could make over 2000HP.

If I had $$$, I think I would have run 2 piezo CR injectors per bore and had progressive delivery.
 

SmokeShow

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my understanding is they ARE gonna have substantially more injection pressure than is commonly seen in typical mechanical pumped mod trucks.

I'm curious what that have going on for the dual feed injectors INTERNALLY. Wondering about where those injector bodies come from and exactly what is meant by dual feed... I take it as two barrels within the body of the injector feeding the nozzle and that surely ain't happening in a conventional DMAX injector. Leads one to believe they are completely custom, one-off, billet pieces.

Like I said, the notion that a mechanical pump is going backwards does not really apply to this particular situation IMO due to all the technology put into making a mechanical pump fire multiple shots per stroke per cylinder and the pressures they are talking about being monumental.

Sure impresses the heck out of me!!!! :rockon:



I still think it can and will ALSO be done with a CR system. Gonna have to get the CP3s controlled differently though as they won't be worth their weight in shit at 5K+ rpms. That, theoretically, should be easy enough to fix by remote mounting the CP3s (probably need multiple 3.4s or something else all together as well). Then you just change the gearing that is driving the pumps so that they are only spinning at about half the RPM as the engine at 7000RPMs. The CP3s should be nice and happy at 3500RPM maintaining efficiency while supplying the rails with the pressure needed to maintain nice atomization AND still supply a piss load of fuel.

Then, from what I understand, the RPM limit of the stand alone ECMs is high enough to spin equivalent to the mechanically pumped trucks.


Then technologies can be shared between the two setups to achieve strength in hard parts to be capable of spinning that high and surviving. And I don't know this but if they haven't found new technology for the pistons, perhaps they are just gonna do like top fuel drag cars and see them as regular maintenance items that will be swapped out every pass or so. THAT is the level these guys are playing at. Chris does NOT f around with petty shit. He IS a do-er, not a say-er and he doesn't mess with petty stuff. The very first year out with the truck that is now BBD, he cleaned house with relative ease and at that time the black Scheid truck with lightening bolts on it that is now behind in the SuperStock class was THE truck to beat. I can't itterate how over-the-top Chris goes. I really hope people don't take him/these trucks lightly because they will be shocked if they do. Back when he was building the BBD truck, he said they looked into building a duramax back then but at the time, it wasn't feasible but would be later and that the BBD truck was a hold over until it was time. I'd be very surprised if it isn't at or very near the top of the class.
 

McRat

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While I could be wrong (wouldn't be unique), the reason for multiple fuel shots per cylinder is our inability to alter injector size or pressure during an injection event.

Ideally a fuel shot would be on a curve, much like boost. First a little fuel, then progressively ramp upwards, then fade back to close. Using pilots and postshots mimics this at a coarse level.