Built 5spd inconsistent 3-4 issue, still learning?

LSxBakakos

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To give everyone a little back round I recently just had my trans built again. Between 2xcp3s and 65s my old trans said no more. It's all stg 5 frictions, goerend R, and about every hard part offered. It also has a transgo with Mike L trim valve springs and ratiotek pump spring

The trans has 400mi on it since it was built, cooler lines were flushed etc. I've noticed in my 650rwhp tune sometimes under WOT the trans will shift into 4th and feel like either a long flare or slip or almost like an unlock. I'm unsure if it's from boiling the tires to straight hooking but it varies. Some days it's fine, hooks and goes, or it'll catch traction and seem to rev out. Ive pulled my foot out of it every time just bc of I'm afraid of causing damage to the trans and can't tell wether it's a converter unlock or actual slip. It has a warranty but I'm trying to avoid having to bring the truck back quite yet. The truck does have a parasetic draw but I keep it on a tender so that it doesn't lose memory. If I change tunes normally I let it learn some by miles and do gradual harder throttle pulls until it doesn't flare

If any of you gurus have advice it'd be greatly appreciated. I'm unsure wether I need to take it back to the builder or if this is something due to learning with this power level

Thanks in advance
 

Bdsankey

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What are "stage 5 frictions"? I am guessing a PPE stage 5 kit was used?

Take a log during that time with trans PIDs showed to see if the truck is commanding an unlock/shift at that time as it'll greatly help by showing at least what the TCM is commanding/seeing at that time.
 

2004LB7

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are you letting it learn at 650 or are you using it at less, then turning it up and seeing the issues?

Also, I'm pretty sure the TCM doesn't loose adapts from low or loss of power. only a by-directional scan tool can reset them.
 
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LSxBakakos

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Until today I was unaware that taps we're seperate for t/h on and off. I spoke with my tuner/trans builder and they filled me in. I hammered on it t/h off yesterday and it clicked off every shift perfectly and tbh never pulled or shifted that well before. Tow haul on however has had a flare or occasional slip on the 3-4 in tow haul,(always beat on it in that parameter) so I would assume I now need to learn t/h on which yesterday I did some quarter and half throttle 0-60s to get it closer to adapting. Everything prior was done tune 3, 200mi light throttle then gradual pulls until it cleaned up. Since then it has not left the 4th tune. I'm just an idiot and kept running tow haul not knowing they needed learning too. Hopefully the Alli will learn? And not need a reset for t/h function? Spoke with them as well on my idiot move it I hurt it, they assured me it's fine. I can post what frictions later if need be
 

2004LB7

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yep, every drive mode, normal, T/H, 4low, etc has it's own set of adaptions. so letting it learn in each is good. some only run their race tune in T/H for an example so that it maintains the TAPs for when they take it to the track. then drive home in normal. then no learning required for racing. doesn't work well for those who tow though
 
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LSxBakakos

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That will be another question for another day regarding 4lo just because I do want to try sled pulling once, but Im unsure how to let it learn that way lol. My last trans must have had that learned, old builder said to still run it. Now knowing I had a major idiot moment when you say there's no learning required am I just supposed to let it slip/flare? Guys told me flat out I won't hurt it, but when it's not right it's just instinct to pull my foot out of the radiator lol
 

2004LB7

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typical learning is to build up on the power levels gradually and let it learn the shifting at different points of throttle. so drive around slowly and gingerly at first, then a little more aggressive and slowly build up to full throttle runs.

I'd have to check a tune file at home to see if 4hi and 4hi T/H has its own TAPs. that would help for racing. otherwise try and be gentle on it until it has adapted to the new power level
 

LSxBakakos

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If or when you have the chance I'd be curious to know as well so thanks for that added info! Do I need to drop down on tune for t/h on? Or am I safe to leave it and just gradually keep letting her learn and progress throttle runs on the 650 tune?
 

darkness

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What year is your lb7? Might want to try an ‘01 or ‘02 os if you don’t already have one.
 

darkness

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Operating system. I’d look into switching. Of the 2 my favorite is the ‘02. I ran an ‘01 os in my ‘04 and was great except for the harsh 2-1 downshift when the trans was cold. Haven’t experienced it in my ‘02 at all.
 

LSxBakakos

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Interesting, I mean my tuner is legit but maybe I'll ask them if they switched it. Last trans did do a pretty harsh little 2-1 coming up to a stop to where you could hear it chatter but since the new tunes and new trans it hasn't done that once come to think of it. Considering valve body mods are untouched it does actually seem to shift faster than it ever has so now I'm wondering if they ended up going that route as well
 

Chevy1925

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No adapts for 4hi or 4hi t/h on, it uses the same stratagy as 2wd or 2wd t/h on. There are adapts for 4low though as stated. I believe the others are for trans overtemp and maybe another one.
 

LSxBakakos

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No adapts for 4hi or 4hi t/h on, it uses the same stratagy as 2wd or 2wd t/h on. There are adapts for 4low though as stated. I believe the others are for trans overtemp and maybe another one.
Thank ya sir! Definitely appreciate the clarification! you guys think I'm safe to let the 650 tune learn on t/h or do I need to drop it down then back up after it learns at a lower level?
 

2004LB7

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No adapts for 4hi or 4hi t/h on, it uses the same stratagy as 2wd or 2wd t/h on. There are adapts for 4low though as stated. I believe the others are for trans overtemp and maybe another one.
that sounds like I remember. thinking about it more I believe it was over temp tables for each of the drive modes (normal, T/H & 4lo). so possibly 6 separate tables and then one for each gear and TCC apply and release . 6x7 twice = 84 individual adapts?. but normally they are grouped and reset together
Thank ya sir! Definitely appreciate the clarification! you guys think I'm safe to let the 650 tune learn on t/h or do I need to drop it down then back up after it learns at a lower level?
just try and keep it at one power level if you can. the 5 speeds are more picky about power changes then the 6 speeds. they are more aggressive in their adapting which has been refined in the 6 speed. 6 speed doesn't seem to mind as much about power changes like the 5

of course running around with 650 hp is not really practical so it may be best to let it learn a lower HP and only use the higher one occasionally
 
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Chevy1925

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you need to keep it on what ever power level you plan to run daily, then do as jason stated. switching tunes doesnt help.

Imho, DSP switches are the worst damn thing for the trans because its so easy to click up and down on power. Your trans will constantly be learning, it never stops. once it comes out of fast learn, it goes into a slow learn and still continues to learn you driving habits and adjust shift pressures and speeds. So when it learns how to shift at a certain power level and then you click the power up a bunch, you get flaired shifts because the tcm isnt ready for all the power and has not quicken the release or apply of the clutches to match the new power. Thats why you creap up on the power of the tune you daily run so its not doing a big flair and possibly killing the clutches you just put in the fresh trans. there will be flairs but you are trying to limit them.

if you daily drive with an egg under your foot, you can still get a flaired shift at WOT even if you dont change power levels because the tcm has not seen a WOT run in such a long time and the trans may have shed a little clutch material over time. it would take a few weeks of that kind of driving to cause it but ive had it happen to me personally. id try to do 1/2 to 3/4 throttle runs every so often just to make sure she was happy. if it was smooth shifting, i knew WOT was good.
 
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LSxBakakos

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you need to keep it on what ever power level you plan to run daily, then do as jason stated. switching tunes doesnt help.

Imho, DSP switches are the worst damn thing for the trans because its so easy to click up and down on power. Your trans will constantly be learning, it never stops. once it comes out of fast learn, it goes into a slow learn and still continues to learn you driving habits and adjust shift pressures and speeds. So when it learns how to shift at a certain power level and then you click the power up a bunch, you get flaired shifts because the tcm isnt ready for all the power and has not quicken the release or apply of the clutches to match the new power. Thats why you creap up on the power of the tune you daily run so its not doing a big flair and possibly killing the clutches you just put in the fresh trans. there will be flairs but you are trying to limit them.
The truck only comes out on weekends so unfortunately I can't put the miles I want to on it. I did notice yesterday in t/h it did in fact start clearing up/learning. I think I'm right around 500mi on the trans so I'm unsure on when that transition from fast to slow learn will change. Tbh that is what worries me regarding the dsp 5. At the end of the season I'll probably click the boom boom tune, but it makes me uneasy that I'll have to learn that power as well before hitting the track. I feel like it's shortening the life on everything in the drivetrain at that point with 3 1/4 runs the 1/2s etc. The last time I remember I think tow haul was fine in 3, 4 however was where it started the inconsistent either hold or blow through kinda deal.

For who requested it earlier the frictions earlier they are alto G3 C1-C4, C5 Raybestos Clutches. Just about all the hard parts as well as the c3 oiler deal
 

Chevy1925

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The truck only comes out on weekends so unfortunately I can't put the miles I want to on it. I did notice yesterday in t/h it did in fact start clearing up/learning. I think I'm right around 500mi on the trans so I'm unsure on when that transition from fast to slow learn will change. Tbh that is what worries me regarding the dsp 5. At the end of the season I'll probably click the boom boom tune, but it makes me uneasy that I'll have to learn that power as well before hitting the track. I feel like it's shortening the life on everything in the drivetrain at that point with 3 1/4 runs the 1/2s etc. The last time I remember I think tow haul was fine in 3, 4 however was where it started the inconsistent either hold or blow through kinda deal.

For who requested it earlier the frictions earlier they are alto G3 C1-C4, C5 Raybestos Clutches. Just about all the hard parts as well as the c3 oiler deal
This is the issue we play with, sadly. its part of the reason i damn near never ran the big tune in my old truck. the 600hp tune was perfect for romping on, racing in mexico, towing, etc. when the big tune went in, i would drive the sucker most of the day and let the trans learn it if i knew i had a mexico race or was going to the track.
 
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LSxBakakos

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This is the issue we play with, sadly. its part of the reason i damn near never ran the big tune in my old truck. the 600hp tune was perfect for romping on, racing in mexico, towing, etc. when the big tune went in, i would drive the sucker most of the day and let the trans learn it if i knew i had a mexico race or was going to the track.
That definitely sounds like my dilemma. What was your big tune making? I'm half tempted to try to leave t/h off as 3/daily and 4 and t/h activated as the hot tune. Then later on in the season crank up the sauce and see what it does. Butt Dyno wise I think I have my goal on 4 but ya never know. Or I'll just get it to learn on 4 with both modes and pray to the rod gods 😂
 

Chevy1925

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800hp was what it made on the dyno before it got bigger injectors and a bigger atmosphere. never got a clean track pass to back it but it was the same dyno that it made 750 on a couple years prior and the track backed that. i had a built engine in it though. it ate transmissions but that was from high hp and towing abuse.