Duramax Diesels Forum Truck of the Week
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Old 06-01-2015, 02:39 PM
yellowchevy yellowchevy is offline
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Default IHI Showdown!!!

IHI Showdown!!

I know alot of people have been waiting for this and sorry it's taken so long, life has a tendency to get in the way, either good or bad.

First off, I’d like to say that I’m not pushing one wheel over another or have anything to gain when it comes to which wheel is “superior”. The goal of this endeavor was to compare all the wheels side by side and be as consistent as possible so I could get accurate/true results. This didn’t mean I was just after hp/torque numbers; I was looking at hp/torque, spool up, EGT’s, towing, and driving characteristics. I also wanted to show the benefit of TRUE porting/polishing to a stock frame turbo. Enjoy!!

Let’s go back 4-5 years ago, I looked into S366’s but didn’t find the exact information I was seeking about spool up time difference’s and turbine wheel sizes; since then there has been a lot more information that I’ve found. I ended up purchasing an II Silver bullet in 2012, but for the 2 years I ran it I wasn’t impressed!! I mainly use my pickup for towing and daily driving so quick spooling was very important to me; that II S366 didn’t meet my requirement. Again, it’s important to remember that everybody’s needs/desirers are different. A turbo for one person maybe great, but less desirable for another based on their needs/use.

Since the first drop in replacement aftermarket compressor wheel came out for the IHI’s I’ve been wanting to get one for my LB7. The batmowheel was the first one I noticed that caught my eye; I later saw others but they didn’t have much info. This was about 4-5 years and 1 country ago!!! This also made me wonder how just a compressor wheel could add the power I was seeing online; this also started me on the path to porting/polishing, but that’s a whole other story!!! Fast forward to around this year. There are now 3 drop in replacement (I’m sure there’s more but this these were the ones I could easily find/found info about) compressor wheels for the IHI’s and a few 63.5 wheels; as well as many other turbo’s but we’ll focus on IHI’s being that’s what this thread is about. I haven’t seen anybody out there do this (that’s been published) so I thought this would be a good opportunity to test all the wheels. The wheels tested were stock cast, Batmowheel, Wetzel, TS (Wicked Wheel), and 63.5mm (2.5) Wetzel; I got another 63.5mm wheel towards the end of my testing that I only put in a ported/polished turbo. I did this because if you’re going to remove your turbo for a larger compressor wheel then you’re better off having it ported/polished to get the full benefit of your turbo, thats my belief.

There’s also the question/decision; if I’m going to spend the time taking the cover off or pull the turbo for a different compressor wheel why not just replace the turbo?? And of course the question of, I don’t really want to spend the money if I don’t know it will work for my application/be happy??

So for some time now I’ve seen the BIG debate/argument of what wheel is better, Batmowheel, Wetzel, TS/Wicked, 63.5 wheels, etc? I’ve also noticed some on duramax forum don’t think analytically, haha. I also noticed price comes up all the time too; this wheel cost $XX and says it gives you XXhp where this wheel costs $XXX and give you XXhp, etc.!! Being I rebuild/soup up turbo’s and have no affiliation with any of the wheel suppliers I figured my findings would be unbiased/neutral. Obviously I have my preferences but again only due to how a wheel performed and what a person use’s their pickup for.

Alright, enough verbal diarrhea, on with the data. What I looked at was spool up time as Russ (Coker) has done on his lag thread; 0-20psi from a standstill along with cruising at 1500rpm locked in 5th gear and accelerating to the 20psi increase without the tranny shifting; how many seconds each takes to spool. I looked at the different areas one drives their pickup as well, such as getting up to speed from an on ramp, cruising down the road, towing, and general driving characteristics. I looked at the peak HP & torque but also the curve characteristics and how each wheel affects the curve. And of course I took video of the different sound each turbo made being most people want to know.

I used a bone stock IHI turbo with stock cast wheel as the baseline/starting point. Each wheel was dropped in and dyno’d(Mustang Dyno) 5 times locked in 4th gear to get the best consistent data I could. After I went through all 5 wheels in the stock housing, I removed the turbo to port/polish. After porting/polishing, I went through all 5 wheels again; starting with the stock cast one, to show the gains I get with porting/polishing. Remember, I added another 63.5mm (2.5) wheel as well that I didn’t run in the stock unmodified turbo.

Pickup used was my personally 2003 dually with 112k miles, 7,680lbs(4,220 steering & 3,460 drive), stock motor, stock head studs, 4” exhaust, 3 ½” downpipe, 4” intake, stock intake horn ported/polished to 3”(roughly), ported/polished exhaust manifolds, stock up pipes, stock intercooler, 3” hot side intercooler tube, stock Y-bridge, stock cold side intercooler tube, dual kenndy lift pumps, built tranny, 230hp max effort tune(Kory Willis), stock injectors(10k miles), stock LB7 cp3(23ksi), and 235/85 tires on eagle wheels; so nothing special. This is the most abuse this pickup has seen so far, haha. For tow testing I used a 1948 1 ½ Ton dodge grain truck I picked up for a guy being I had it on my trailer for a while.

Stock IHI Turbo, NO PORTING/POLISHING
Cruising Characteristics

This was done on flat interstate with no head wind, in the afternoon, and very close wind speeds(best I could being I can’t control the weather). My baseline test was the coldest temperature but I’ve driving the stock turbo at 65mph for many years and the boost/EGT are VERY close to the same whether it’s 25℉ to 45℉.

Stock Comp Wheel – 65mph boost is 2-3psi & EGT’s 625℉ - 650℉ at 24℉ - 25℉.
Batmowheel – 65mph boost is 2-3psi & EGT’s 600℉ - 625℉ at 46℉ - 47℉.
Wetzel Wheel – 65mph boost is 3psi & EGT’s 625℉ - 650℉ at 43℉ - 44℉.
TS/Wicked Wheel – 65mph boost is 2-3psi & EGT’s 625℉ - 650℉ at 40℉ - 42℉.
63.5 Wetzel Wheel – 65mph boost is 2-3psi & EGT’s 625℉ - 650℉ at 45℉ - 46℉.

Lag Test – 0-20psi
Test was performed on a flat county road from a dead stop, around 670-680rpm idle in gear. 3-5 runs were done to get the best range of data.

Stock Wheel – at 24℉ - 25℉; 2.808 seconds
Batmowheel – at 46℉ - 47℉; 2.644 seconds
Wetzel Wheel – at 43℉ - 44℉; 2.533 seconds
TS/Wicked Wheel – at 40℉ - 42℉; 2.536 seconds
63.5 Wetzel Wheel – at 45℉ - 46℉; 2.490 seconds

Lag Test – 1500rpm+ to 20psi increase
Test was performed on a flat county road in 5th gear with tow/haul activated to make sure TC was locked. 6 runs were done to get the best range of data being it’s not as consistent as when you’re starting from a stop like the 0-20psi lag test.

Stock Wheel – at 24℉ - 25℉; 4.352 seconds
Batmowheel – at 46℉ - 47℉; 4.051 seconds
Wetzel Wheel – at 43℉ - 44℉; 4.185 seconds
TS/Wicked Wheel – at 40℉ - 42℉; 4.283 seconds
63.5 Wetzel Wheel – at 45℉ - 46℉; 4.728 seconds

Testing Characteristics
When doing the 0-20psi lag test, the 63.5mm Wetzel wheel smoked the least and the batmowheel was a close second; even though it didn’t have the best time. All the others had very similar amounts of smoke.

From the 1500rpm+ lag test, the batmwheel was hands down the best. It spooled very quick and had very minimal smoke. The 63.5mm Wetzel wheel had the most smoke along with being the slowest, which I expecting being it’s larger and I don’t have the fuel down low. The TS/Wicked wheel and stock spooled close to one another as well as similar amount of smoke. The Wetzel wheel was a little slower than the batmowheel but had a good amount of smoke compared to the batmowheel.

When doing the 0-20psi or 1500+rpm lag test; stock, Wetzel, TS/Wicked, and 63.5mm Wetzel wheel all sounded about the same and I was able to let off the throttle with no problem. The Batmowheel would bark if you let out of the throttle to quickly from a hard accelerate when doing the 0-20spi lag test.

Driving Characteristics
General driving manners of the batmowheel was the best. It was the quickest to spool up/accelerate down the road/on ramps or when just cruising around in town or county roads; it took the least amount of throttle to change speeds. It made the pickup nicer to drive and got you moving down the road easier. If you’re doing a good amount of towing the batmowheel would be a better choice.
The Wetzel wheel was a close second; it had good driving manners but didn’t spool/accelerate as quickly as the batmowheel. That’s not to say it’s any worse, it just has different driving manners.
The 63.5mm Wetzel wheel drove extremely close to the stock wheel. The only real way you noticed it was larger, was when trying to accelerate if under the turbo or feeling how quick it would spool. It spooled quicker from a stop and drove down the road just like stock. Once spooled, it would move you down the road very nicely. The TS/Wicked wheel was the worst out of the aftermarket wheels; it was slow to spool and just didn’t have favorable characteristics. It was better than stock for the lag test but made less HP & Torque.

PORTED/POLISHED IHI Housing
Cruising Characteristics

Again, this was done on flat interstate with no head wind, in the afternoon, and very close wind speeds.

Stock Comp Wheel – 65mph boost is 3-4psi & EGT’s 575℉ - 550℉ at 22℉ - 22℉.
Batmowheel – 65mph boost is 3-4psi & EGT’s 650℉ - 625℉ at 35℉ - 35℉.
Wetzel Wheel – 65mph boost is 2-2psi & EGT’s 600℉ - 625℉ at 46℉ - 46℉.
TS/Wicked Wheel – 65mph boost is 3-4psi & EGT’s 625℉ - 600℉ at 35℉ - 35℉.
63.5 Wetzel Wheel – 65mph boost is 3-4psi & EGT’s 650℉ - 600℉ at 11℉ - 11℉.
63.5 MPS Wheel – 65mph boost is 3-4psi & EGT’s 575℉ - 600℉ at 16℉ - 16℉.

Lag Test – 0-20psi
Test was performed on a flat county road from a dead stop, around 670-680rpm idle in gear. 3 – 5 runs were done to get the best range of data.

Stock Wheel – at 32℉ - 32℉; 2.339 seconds
Batmowheel – at 35℉ - 35℉; 2.263 seconds
Wetzel Wheel – at 46℉ - 46℉; 2.249 seconds
TS/Wicked Wheel – at 35℉ - 35℉; 2.480 seconds
63.5 Wetzel Wheel – at 13℉ - 13℉; 2.127 seconds
63.5 MPS Wheel – at 13℉ - 13℉; 2.224 seconds

Lag Test – 1500rpm+ to 20psi increase
Test was performed on a flat county road in 5th gear with tow/haul activated to make sure TC was locked. 6 runs were done to get the best range of data being it’s not as consistent as when you’re starting from a stop like the 0-20psi lag test.

Stock Wheel – at 32℉ - 32℉; 3.120 seconds
Batmowheel – at 35℉ - 35℉; 3.915 seconds
Wetzel Wheel – at 46℉ - 46℉; 4.266 seconds
TS/Wicked Wheel – at 35℉ - 35℉; 4.240 seconds
63.5 Wetzel Wheel – at 13℉ - 13℉; 3.874 seconds
63.5 MPS Wheel – at 13℉ - 13℉; 4.148 seconds

Testing Characteristics
Stock wheel – With the ported/polished housing, the stock wheel was a completely different turbo. It smoked very little when doing the 1500+rpm lag test. It spooled quickly and was a lot of fun to drive. As you can see from the lag test it dropped a good amount of time compared to the stock housing. When on the dyno it was a beast and would take off very quick. It spools so quick it reminds me a driving a chevelle or camero with a big block.
Batmowheel – When doing the 0-20psi lag test it spooled very quick and pushed you back in the seat. But was disappointed in how doggy it was in the 1500+rpm lag test. It smoked a lot and just didn’t have the get up and go feel like in the stock housing. One thing I did notice was when I’d hit about 20psi, it would jump up to 30psi very quick and the pickup would take off!!! On the 1500+rpm lag test spool up time was decreased but not nearly as much as the stock wheel. In the 0-20psi lag test I didn’t have any issues with the turbo barking like I did when in the stock housing, I was able to bark it very easily if I wasn’t careful. When I was accelerating hard from 1500rpm’s my boost would jump to 30psi very quick; but if I let out of the throttle even a slight amount the turbo would bark and boost would drop to 20psi or less very quickly. This happened multiple times, I was very careful to not let off the throttle very much but the batmowheel was very sensitive and it still bark 10-15 times in performing the 1500+rpm lag test. It also took out 2 compressor side piston seals.
Wetzel Wheel – For the 1500+rpm lag test it was very similar to the stock housing; smoke was about the same and spool up time was very similar. Even though spool up time was slower it was less than 2%; which I feel is very low. For the 0-20psi lag test it did really well. It pulled hard and would break the tires loose much easier than the stock, batmowheel, or TS/Wicked wheel; it was fun!!! The porting/polishing also knocked off ¼ of a second.
TS/Wicked Wheel – For both the 1500+rpm and 0-20psi lag test it was very similar to when in the stock housing. Time was dropped in both areas; not much but some gains were made.
63.5mm Wetzel Wheel – In the 0-20psi lag test it spooled 3/8 of second sooner than the stock housing and the tires would break loose right away causing the pickup to fish tail back and forth longer than any of the stock size wheels. For the 1500+rpm lag test it did very well; spooled 0.865 seconds quicker and smoked very little. I also noticed how it would pull hard through all the gears whereas all the stock size wheels wouldn’t.
63.5mm MPS Wheel – For the 0-20psi lag test this wheel again spooled very quick. The 1500+rpm lag test wasn’t as quick as the 63.5 wetzel wheel but it was still a good performer. The biggest difference between this wheel and the 63.5 wetzel wheel was that it pulled harder through the gears and would accelerate quicker when a little boost was built; more of a performance wheel if you would. It was also a blast when rolling into the throttle from a stop light, corner, or when accelerating from 20-30mph.

Driving Characteristics
Stock wheel – The turbo drove like the stock housing with the batmowheel. It spooled quickly and drove down the road nice. It didn’t take as much throttle to get you moving and had good throttle response/acceleration around the 60-65mph at little boost. It like driving a chevelle, camero, etc with a big block; turbo lag is pretty much nonexistent.
Batmowheel – It did not have the same characteristics as when in the stock housing. It didn’t spool or get you moving as quick. It actually drove much like a stock turbo accept when accelerating hard from a stop or when you’d lay into it. Once boost got up around 20-25psi, then she moved really well, but you had to watch out and not let out of the throttle.
Wetzel Wheel – It drove very similar to when in the stock housing; it picked up maybe a little quicker but not much. But when you’d accelerate hard and the turbo spooled, it would take off!!! It pulled a little harder than the batmowheel did as well. For a direct drop in wheel, it pulled the hardiest through all the gears.
TS/Wicked Wheel – It was similar to when in the stock housing but did have lower EGT’s and would accelerate a little quicker than when in the stock housing.
63.5mm Wetzel Wheel – From my testing in the stock housing I was expecting the 63.5mm wheel to be a little doggy/less responsive in the ported/polished housing as well due to the larger size of the wheel and being it didn’t spool the greatest when doing the lag test, but I was wrong. It spooled faster than a bone stock turbo with no porting/polishing and had good driving manners; both cruising down the road or around town.
63.5mm MPS Wheel – I didn’t test this wheel in a stock housing being I didn’t see/find it till after I had tested all the other wheels; both stock & ported/polished, but the overall goal of stock comparison was still relevant. Again, this wheel responded very well like the 63.5mm Wetzel wheel and I was very happy with it, but the biggest difference I noticed was how responsive it was when cruising down the road. It had low EGT’s, didn’t take much throttle to get/keep you moving, and when you’d accelerate from stop sign or roll into the throttle it wanted to brake those back tires loose!!! Overall it was a lot of fun to drive and made me want to drift around corners!!!

Rolling Acceleration Characteristics
Stock Wheel – When rolling into the throttle you had to be careful to not push too hard because the rear tires would break free due to how quick the turbo spooled. Same manners as stated in driving characteristics; drove like a muscle car. What’s interesting is when you lost traction followed by regaining it, the pickup would fall under the turbo and it was doggy for a second or two. After that brief delay, it was just as responsive/quick as before.
Batmowheel – It rolled into the throttle just fine but if the tires lost tractions and then regained traction again, the turbo would bark every time. It would also fall under the turbo and be doggy like the stock wheel when it got traction again but the delay was a few seconds longer being the turbo barked.
Wetzel Wheel – The Wetzel wheel did great when rolling into the throttle; it was very smooth and easy. The power seamed more consistent and even, it didn’t hit as hard as the stock wheel but also didn’t fall under the turbo like the stock or batmowheel. It also pulled hard through all the gears and didn’t fall under the turbo when it regained traction like the other stock size wheels did.
TS/Wicked Wheel – Similar like the stock wheel in that it would fall under the turbo when traction was regained only it was worse. The delay was longer and it was doggier than the stock wheel when it happened.
63.5mm Wetzel Wheel – Very similar to the 63.5 MPS wheel but didn’t pull quite as hard down low. The 63.5 MPS wheel pulled harder down low but the 63.5 wetzel wheel had more up top. Over all though they were very similar and a lot of fun to drive. Again, didn’t fall under the turbo when traction was regained like the stock size wheels.
63.5mm MPS Wheel – This wheel was smooth and pulled very hard when rolling into the throttle. When you regained traction from a hard acceleration the pickup just kept going!!! It wouldn’t fall under the turbo or be doggy like the stock sized wheels. The stock Wetzel wheel was close but not quite as responsive.

Towing Characteristics
One thing I wanted to point out is that spool up time for towing is very right foot depended. I did my best to be as consistent as possible but it was little more difficult being the pickup wanted to down shift if I wasn’t careful because of the load.
On a side note, I used the 63.5mm Wetzel wheel towing a 38ft gooseneck w/10k axles with my rock crawler and a 68 chevy pickup on it to go off roading one Saturday. With my 230hp tune my EGT’s were around 900-1,000 when cruising and when climbing a small hill I wouldn’t see they go over 1,200-1,250.

Stock Wheel – Responded very similar to when not hooked to the trailer. Spooled very quick and got the load moving down the road without having to give it as much throttle as the other wheels required. With the load I was using for testing, if I accelerated too hard it would break the rear tires loose. Stock and 63.5 MPS wheel took very similar amounts of throttle to maintain your speed when cruising down the road. The 63.5 wetzel wheel on the other hand took less throttle to maintain speed as well as accelerate.
Batmowheel – I again had problems with the turbo barking but when hooked to the trailer and accelerating up to speed it barked every time it shifted. For it to not bark, I had to accelerate slower and be careful I wasn’t in throttle to much. The one time the turbo barked when getting up to speed, it downshifted a gear for a little bit. When accelerating up a hill to maintain your speed I could hear the turbo wanting to surge/flutter; I had to let off the throttle in order to prevent it from getting any worse. Throttle position for maintaining speed was similar to the stock wheel.
Wetzel Wheel – Spool up wasn’t as quick as the stock wheel but took less throttle to maintain speed. Overall it did good towing; got the load up to speed just fine, didn’t bark, and didn’t require a lot of throttle to maintain your speed. Being it didn’t have the best spool up time in the 1500+rpm lag test I was afraid it wouldn’t be that good, but that wasn’t the case.
TS/Wicked Wheel – It was very similar to the stock wheel for maintaining your speed but it didn’t light/accelerate as good as the stock wheel when accelerating from turning a corner or curve.
63.5mm Wetzel Wheel – Got the load moving quick and required less throttle to maintain speed when cruising or accelerating up a hill. EGT’s were as good as a stock size wheel and boost wasn’t super high. Overall I was surprised how well it towed considering it was a larger wheel.
63.5mm MPS Wheel – For towing it didn’t do quite as good as the 63.5 wetzel wheel. It didn’t get the load moving as quick and required a little more throttle to maintain cruising speeds. I was surprised to see how it wasn’t as response when hooked up to the trailer.

Dyno Curve Comparison
There’s really not much to say, the dyno curves say more than I can.

Conclusion
The most important thing I want to point out is that not one wheel is better than the other, some have better characteristics but again it all depends on what a person uses their pickup for and goals.

Yellowchevy

Stock Wheel Ported/Polished
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Old 06-01-2015, 02:47 PM
yellowchevy yellowchevy is offline
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Batmowheel Ported/Polished

Batmowheel vs. Stock Ported/Polished

Wetzel Wheel Ported/Polished

Wetzel vs. Batmowheel Ported/Polished

Wetzel vs. Stock Ported/Polished
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Old 06-01-2015, 03:10 PM
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glad to see you finally get this posted Russ, i know you worked your ass off to do it!! very nice
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Old 06-01-2015, 03:34 PM
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TS/Wicked Ported/Polished

TS/Wicked vs. Stock Ported/Polished

TS/Wicked vs. Wetzel Ported/Polished

63.5 Wetzel Ported/Polished

63.5 Wetzel vs. Batmowheel Ported/Polished

63.5 Wetzel vs. Stock Ported/Polished

63.5 MPS vs. 63.5 wetzel Ported/Polished

63.5 MPS vs. Batmowheel Ported/Polished

63.5 MPS vs. Drop in Wetzel Ported/Polished

63.5 MPS vs. Stock Ported/Polished


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Old 06-01-2015, 03:35 PM
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Wow this is insane.. Definitely a great read for sure! Thanks again
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Old 06-01-2015, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Chevy1925 View Post
glad to see you finally get this posted Russ, i know you worked your ass off to do it!! very nice
Thanks James!! I've spent most all day getting everything complied, put into photobucket, and reading it a few times to make sure it makes sense.
It's a lot of reading but hopefully go info.

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Old 06-01-2015, 04:58 PM
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Kinda makes me want to try out a modified stock turbo, I have never had one on my truck before.
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Old 06-01-2015, 06:27 PM
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This is excellent, great job, I hope everybody takes the time to read and appreciate how much work you put into this.
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Old 06-01-2015, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MAXX IT OUT View Post
Kinda makes me want to try out a modified stock turbo, I have never had one on my truck before.
They're a night and day difference believe it or not. The first IHI I did back in 2012 surprised me quite a bit with how quick it spooled. At the time I didn't know what to think, haha. Since then I've made changes to make them better, I've even got a couple other things up my sleeve I need to try!!!

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Old 06-01-2015, 06:36 PM
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Wow lots of detail. I need to read this in my computer and dedicate some time to all the info.
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Old 06-01-2015, 06:40 PM
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This is excellent, great job, I hope everybody takes the time to read and appreciate how much work you put into this.
Thanks Cody!!
I kept track of wheel swaps up to the TS/wicked wheel in the ported/polished housing along with doing the porting/polishing work, but after that I stopped b/c I didn't see the point, haha. Just doing that put me at 40hrs and that was less than half the time I put into it. Hell, thanks to my conversations with James I went through all the wheels a second time, but that was to see how they did towing. As much as I cursed James for giving me something else to think about I'm very glad I did.

I have SO many hours of EFI live data its scary!!!

On a side note, my quickest wheel swap time was 2 - 2 1/2 hours. That was bring the pickup in the garage, doing the work, and then driving it out; yes hot motor and all, haha. I had some burns at times but not bad.

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Last edited by yellowchevy; 06-01-2015 at 06:42 PM. Reason: Forgot the EFI live comment
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Old 06-01-2015, 07:13 PM
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For a guy to take all this on by himself and put the time in is awesome!!! Another great reason why people should support Yellowchevy as a vendor
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Old 06-01-2015, 07:14 PM
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minerigger minerigger is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Casper, WY
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I honestly can't believe he doesn't sell more. Hell I want one of these ihi turbos and I have an lbz
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Brock

06 LBZ ECLB

Gauges, Danville Tunes, 5" Dumped, Trans by Evan, DP Stg2r, Sleeved/Braced and some other odds and ends crap that we all have
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  #14  
Old 06-01-2015, 07:34 PM
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Awenta Awenta is offline
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Location: CT
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Great work!! Thanks!
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Arek

2003 CCSB LT LB7 deleted

Some cool stuff, some fast stuff, some slow stuff
EFI by Kory

Special thanks to Evan@Limitless
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  #15  
Old 06-01-2015, 07:37 PM
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mackthehack mackthehack is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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That is pure dedication Russell. Thanks for all the hard work and good info.

Both of the trucks on your trailer in the first picture look bad ass
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