Duramax Diesels Forum Truck of the Week
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:28 PM
MadMax17 MadMax17 is offline
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Default Vanes cycle non-stop at idle intermittenly

Hey everyone, I have a weird issue that started about a month ago. The vanes started cycling non stop while i'm at an idle. It doesn't do it everytime i'm at idle and some days it won't do it at all.
The truck is an 06 LBZ that I tune myself with EFI live, it has quite a few mods but im only pushing about 500hp. After the vanes began cycling like this I removed the intake horn and found I had axial play on the shaft, I just pulled it 2 weekends ago and rebuilt it with a kit from midwest turbo. I also ported and polished the housings while it was out and I completely cleaned the turbine side as well as assembled with nickle anti sieze. There was no evidence of the vanes or unison ring sticking at all when I disassembled.
Prior to the rebuild I would use my Tech 2 and EFI live V2 to command vane position and even at idle the turbo would do what I commanded it to do. I have tried different tunes including the stock tune and it still does the same thing. Vane position seems to follow my tune quite well and I am not low on power at all. It is just annoying more than anything and I would like to get it figured out before it causes an issue. It will cycle (or try to) almost once every 2 seconds and once it starts it doesn't stop cycling until I hit the throttle or start to drive (even when switching tunes with my dsp switch). It won't always reach 100% either, sometimes it will only reach in the 70% range, or 80% it isn't consistent at all.
I have also installed another vane position sensor that I had laying around and performed the turbo relearn with my tech 2. I am very familiar with these trucks and turbos and have done a lot of work on them but have never seen this issue, almost makes me think my ecm is acting up. Please chime in if you have ever had this issue or have any input, thank you!
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMax17 View Post
Hey everyone, I have a weird issue that started about a month ago. The vanes started cycling non stop while i'm at an idle. It doesn't do it everytime i'm at idle and some days it won't do it at all.
The truck is an 06 LBZ that I tune myself with EFI live, it has quite a few mods but im only pushing about 500hp. After the vanes began cycling like this I removed the intake horn and found I had axial play on the shaft, I just pulled it 2 weekends ago and rebuilt it with a kit from midwest turbo. I also ported and polished the housings while it was out and I completely cleaned the turbine side as well as assembled with nickle anti sieze. There was no evidence of the vanes or unison ring sticking at all when I disassembled.
Prior to the rebuild I would use my Tech 2 and EFI live V2 to command vane position and even at idle the turbo would do what I commanded it to do. I have tried different tunes including the stock tune and it still does the same thing. Vane position seems to follow my tune quite well and I am not low on power at all. It is just annoying more than anything and I would like to get it figured out before it causes an issue. It will cycle (or try to) almost once every 2 seconds and once it starts it doesn't stop cycling until I hit the throttle or start to drive (even when switching tunes with my dsp switch). It won't always reach 100% either, sometimes it will only reach in the 70% range, or 80% it isn't consistent at all.
I have also installed another vane position sensor that I had laying around and performed the turbo relearn with my tech 2. I am very familiar with these trucks and turbos and have done a lot of work on them but have never seen this issue, almost makes me think my ecm is acting up. Please chime in if you have ever had this issue or have any input, thank you!
Have you cleaned your mass air sensor , do you have an oiled filter ? Just shooting things out there you might have over looked !
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:16 PM
MadMax17 MadMax17 is offline
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I will try cleaning the MAF again tomorrow, I do have an oiled filter (s&b) so it is possible. I usually clean it shortly after i clean and oil the filter but its possible that I didn't this past time. Thanks for the reply, I would love for it to be that simple.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:19 PM
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Truck didn't act up all morning, when I had some time waiting at a job I pulled the MAF and cleaned it quick. After i put it back in it still had the same idle reading and then it started cycling again. Not sure what else to check at this point, if anyone else has an idea please share!
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by MadMax17 View Post
Truck didn't act up all morning, when I had some time waiting at a job I pulled the MAF and cleaned it quick. After i put it back in it still had the same idle reading and then it started cycling again. Not sure what else to check at this point, if anyone else has an idea please share!
I was going to say if you had a near by friend that parks his truck for the winter , to barrow his MAF and then i saw where you are from . lol I hope you figure it out soon !
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AFE Blade Runner,AFE Momentum CAI,DHD Big Air intake Y pipe, DHD fuel block,DHD pcv reroute,MBRP 4 inch exhaust,DHD 3 inch downpipe,BD driver's side manifold,DHD pass side up pipe,DHD 3 inch intercooler hot&cold pipes, ATI damper,Empire pin kit by Big Foot on & off road shop, FASS fuel system,5/8 inch pickup, FASS fuel filter delete, EFI live,V2 & lap top , 5 position switch 250 hp big tune, shimmed fprv by Crank it up , built SunCoast Allison 1078 converter aftermarket trany mount by Limitless Diesel,ARP head studs,grade C gaskets,tig-welded water pump,T stats by Blackout performance,MA t case brace , Kriptonite motor mounts,MA pump rub kit,HD drive shaft 1480joints by Greensburg machine,BDS Recoil traction bars, PPE finned deep pan , Mike L trany cooler, PSC pump, 5100s, Sulastic Shackles, Curt com 2.5 hitch
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:14 PM
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are you sure its not tuning related? and its only now doing it due to temperature?
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:29 PM
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Well I had an lbz and it started doing this what you're talking about and I wasn't very learned in the duramax world yet really (still not), but I did clean the maf and check codes and cleaned vane sensor and nothing changed.. finally I just put a new 3794 from Danville in and that fixed it of course..

Just my experience and sorry I don't know what the actual problem was with it..
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMax17 View Post
Truck didn't act up all morning, when I had some time waiting at a job I pulled the MAF and cleaned it quick. After i put it back in it still had the same idle reading and then it started cycling again. Not sure what else to check at this point, if anyone else has an idea please share!
I do not know why it took me so long to think of this , but call Mark at Danville and tell him what you did and see if he recommends his High flow custom vanes , which are on sale right now for $200 . No I do not get a kick back LOL . But if anyone can help with turbo problems it is Mark !
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AFE Blade Runner,AFE Momentum CAI,DHD Big Air intake Y pipe, DHD fuel block,DHD pcv reroute,MBRP 4 inch exhaust,DHD 3 inch downpipe,BD driver's side manifold,DHD pass side up pipe,DHD 3 inch intercooler hot&cold pipes, ATI damper,Empire pin kit by Big Foot on & off road shop, FASS fuel system,5/8 inch pickup, FASS fuel filter delete, EFI live,V2 & lap top , 5 position switch 250 hp big tune, shimmed fprv by Crank it up , built SunCoast Allison 1078 converter aftermarket trany mount by Limitless Diesel,ARP head studs,grade C gaskets,tig-welded water pump,T stats by Blackout performance,MA t case brace , Kriptonite motor mounts,MA pump rub kit,HD drive shaft 1480joints by Greensburg machine,BDS Recoil traction bars, PPE finned deep pan , Mike L trany cooler, PSC pump, 5100s, Sulastic Shackles, Curt com 2.5 hitch
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:16 PM
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If it is cycling the vanes, they are not stuck. You need to monitor the position sensor range and verify it is reaching full span and not being "jumpy" in a specific spot. Also, this type of symptom is common when the 5v reference circuit is being compromised by a short. Normally it will present a code for the 5v circuit being low voltage or something, but if it hasn't met that threshold yet, then obviously there will not be a code. The 5v reference circuit for the position sensor is common with that of the EGR valve and MAP sensor, just an fyi.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:11 PM
MadMax17 MadMax17 is offline
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Originally Posted by 2004LB7 View Post
are you sure its not tuning related? and its only now doing it due to temperature?
Positive it's not tuning related, I have tuned this truck myself for the last 4 years. Have not messed with the tune at all lately, It's been the same for quite a while now. Also I'm not sure if it is due to the colder temps we have had lately in AZ, I have never heard it do this issue before and I've owned it 4 years now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juddski88 View Post
If it is cycling the vanes, they are not stuck. You need to monitor the position sensor range and verify it is reaching full span and not being "jumpy" in a specific spot. Also, this type of symptom is common when the 5v reference circuit is being compromised by a short. Normally it will present a code for the 5v circuit being low voltage or something, but if it hasn't met that threshold yet, then obviously there will not be a code. The 5v reference circuit for the position sensor is common with that of the EGR valve and MAP sensor, just an fyi.
I know for a fact the vanes aren't stuck, I just rebuilt the turbo completely. I have pulled the vane sensor out and manually operated the sensor while watching the value, I found no jumpy spots or dead spots in the sensor reading. After rebuilding the turbo it didn't act up for a week or so then it started doing it again. I put my other vane sensor in that is a known good sensor and the same thing happens. I have not checked the 5V circuit yet but I will make sure that is ok, I do have my egr plugs zip tied to my harness as everything is deleted so maybe by chance there is some corrosion that could be causing a voltage drop on that.
My vane tables are commanding 4% at idle and it holds steady at 3%. The issue is when it performs it's self learn procedure, it's almost as if it doesn't complete the process completely. Normal self learn vane sweep that happens at a stop light or periodically at idle lasts about 2 seconds or so from 0% to 100% back to 0%. This constantly tries to complete the test but it only lasts for half a second or so each time, in intervals of about a second or 2 between cycles. Watching my edge monitor it usually doesn't reach 100% during these sweeps, it will reach 99 or 98% and sometimes as low as 77%. However when I use efi live or my Tech 2 to command 100% it will reach and hold that position for however long I command it to. The only part I haven't replaced is the control solenoid and I do have a few spares but it ohms out correctly and works properly when commanded. I am leaning toward something in my ECM has gone funky but don't have a test ECM to try.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:27 PM
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I would definitely check your circuits before suspecting the ecm is bad. check voltage on that 5v circuit first
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Old 02-10-2019, 09:18 PM
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Have you tried setting the vanes to 15-25% at idle instead of 4%. Just because it never had a problem before doesn’t mean it’s not the tuning.
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Old 02-10-2019, 09:18 PM
MadMax17 MadMax17 is offline
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I would definitely check your circuits before suspecting the ecm is bad. check voltage on that 5v circuit first
No I agree, just saying it is weird how its happening. I will check the 5v ref. Tomorrow and see what I have. Thanks for the input!
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Old 02-10-2019, 09:19 PM
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Have you tried setting the vanes to 15-25% at idle instead of 4%. Just because it never had a problem before doesnít mean itís not the tuning.
I have different settings on different tunes on my dsp switch, it does it no matter what tune im in, even flashed another set of tunes to make sure.
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:35 PM
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Wasn't there an updated calibration from GM that made the vanes cycle to reduce sticking? Not sure what parameters are needed to activate it but I don't think it was any of the tables in efi live

Seems unlikely that this is it as it didn't do it before with the same tune
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