Duramax Diesels Forum Truck of the Week
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:38 PM
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Default Nightmare in Idaho, Built 5spd killing Transfer Cases

Hi all,

Bare with me, this nightmare is killing me. Truck has been down for 3 months, Killing my hotshot freight business due to truck being down.

Initial prognosis back in October: (this was diagnosis by local transmission shop, and other mechanics)
Allison 5spd slipping in 4 to 5, TC not wanting to lock either
Transfer case XHD blowing rear output seals, and 4 low planetaries or shift forks messed up.

I asked about how I should build my transmission in the overhaul through another thread and discussion with MikeL on here, back in October or November.

The shop I was working though sold me a "Road Ripper 3000" which is a stage 4 build, stating it will hold 300+ HP over stock, with forged output shaft, shift kit, and 2 gear fix(the name escapes me on that specific fix), the company that builds them is Certified Transmissions-->https://www.certifiedtransmission.com/road-ripper/ you can read the transmission info on this page, the output shaft and 2nd gear fix were added at extra cost or custom build.
They also sold me a rebuilt Transfer Case to complete the repair...

Transmission was put in, replaced transmission cooling lines, replaced transmission cooler, and Mobile 1 transmission fluid was used per Certifieds requirements....

Transfer case #1 went in utilizing Mobile 1 synthetic as well.

Certified stated we needed to run the Transmission Learn procedure or quick learn test. The scan tool the shop used had issues doing this, and instead it was done manual or not so quick learn...

So we went out on the road and initial tests went well. Transmission shifts like a built transmission should, I think...

Last test was on the Transfer Case... Here is were it all started going wrong...

Transfer case would shift from 2 high to 4 High, and back again, no issues.
Transfer case would shift from 4 High to 4 Low, no Issues.
Transfer case would get stuck in 4 low, and not return to 4 High.. Half of the time, the 4 Low light would just blink, the other half of the time, the Transfer Case would grind itself to bits trying to go back to 4 high from 4 low. You would have to shut vehicle off, and return to accessories, to get it to stop grinding, and then repeat the process multiple times for about 30 minutes, before finally coming out of 4 low....

Tech at this point, tried a new encoder motor, or thing mounted to external side of Transfer case, with no change, would constantly do the same thing.
Tech got on shifter with socket, and it was literally excessively tight trying to get in and out of 4 low...Had to use excessive torque to shift transfer case manually...
Tech diagnosed transfer case to be mechanically bad, so called for warranty.

Transfer case #2:
Exact same issue as transfer case #1, all test previously discussed yielded the same result, and tech called Transfer case #2 mechanically faulty.

Note: at this point we cross referenced the owners manual with what it describes as to shifting in and out of 4 low, plus common understanding how to do so. All recommended testing failed with no change on truck sticking in 4 low, and then Tcase grinding itself out.

Transfer case #3:
We decided to stop dealing with re seller who sold us T-Case #1 and #2... and went with company that sold us transmission...
This time, 4 low wasn't the issue... Transfer case #3 would shift in and out great. Problem with #3 was that it would never complete the shift from 4 High back to 2 low, even though the TCCM and shift lights stated it was in 2 high, and randomly as you drove down the road in 2 High, the T-Case would just start grinding itself to bits...
Tech diagnosed #3 as faulty mechanically, and when they drained the T-Case, liquid metal shavings is what you found in the pan...

Transfer Case #4:
Remember how I said we thought we were going with a different vendor on these T-Cases... wrong. Looks like everyone buys refurbished T-Cases from a reman shop out of Iowa, and all 4 of the T-cases we have, come from this specific shop in Iowa.. "Retech" is the company that supposedly refurbishes 90% of GM transfer cases nation wide. So transfer case #4 verified with T-Case #1, #2, and #3 all had the same bar code and stamp from this outfit called ReTech out of Iowa. Transfer case #4 was in bad shape visually, and the case had physically been repaired due to pump rub failure. SO at this point did not feel comfortable even putting T-case #4 in the truck.

At this point, billing and finances were turning ugly. The shop I had chosen to do all these repairs, time and time again was putting responsibility on me to solve all these issue, stating "that's why we had you purchase parts directly...", and "You call these 3rd parties to get warranties..." and seemed as though they constantly want to wash their hands. Note: I asked this shop to sell me a solution. This shop ordered Transmisison and T case from there office, physically, standing with the shop manager in his office, and I just presented my credit card over the phone. But we will get to that later. At this point, I had a Transmission R&R cost, 2 Transfer case costs, R&R on 3 Transfer case costs, and 3 Fluid charges, not to mention at this point my truck has been down for 8 weeks...
So this shop, urged me to take it to a GM dealer, and shell out yet another Transfer Case charge, and let GM sort it out.

So I took truck to local GMC Dealer, paid for Transfer Case #5.
Transfer case #5 comes back with same issue as Transfer Case #1 and #2.
Dealer states is was a brand new factory GM from Detroit. Came with Brand New GM encoder motor.
Dealer used GM specific fluid in T-Case.
T-Case would get stuck in 4 low, and not want to come out. Further Diagnosis, they stated I needed a new TCCM.

So I had the Dealer put a new TCCM in the truck and back to square 1.

Transfer case #5 gets stuck in 4 low, and half of the time just gets stuck and 4 low button flashes with no shift and then times out, or the other half of the time grinds itself to bits, forcing you to shut off the truck, and return to accessorie, and then within that process, shifts itself to 4 high.

GM Dealer punted back to other shop, stating aftermarket transmission is the issue, and that the output shaft of the transmission is never stopping. It is spinning ever so slightly, and causing 4 low to bind.

So Re cap:
Stage 4 Transmission with extras, 5 Transfer cases(4 refurbs, 1 new), 2 New Encode Motors, 1 new TCCM, and truck still has issues with 4wd...

Finances:
Transmission cost -> $5500
Transfer Case #1 -> $1400
Fluids with Tcase #1 -> 150.00
Intitlal R&R cost -> $1000.00
Tcase encoder motor before warranty -> $250.00 (with no change)

Tcase #2 -> Warranty
Tcase #2 R&R -> $400.00
Tcase #2 Fuilds -> $150.00

Tcase #3 -> $1600.00
Tcase #3 R&R -> $400.00
Tcase #3 Fuilds -> $150.00

Tcase #4 -> Warranty
Tcase #4 R&R -> Never made it off the bench.

Tcase #5 -> $2600.00
Tcase #5 R&R -> $500.00
Tcase #5 Fluids -> $250.00
TCCM #1 -> $400.00

Total out of pocket cost to date for jobs with out refunds: $14,500.00
Truck still broken and losing money every day it possibly is not on the road...

HELP Please? 3 techs, at two different shops, all seem to agree now, that it has something to do with the output shaft of the transmission, spinning, when transmission is shifted into neutral. However, none of them can point me to what might be the cause and if that means that the new transmission is broke some how...?
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Last edited by raceghost; 02-05-2019 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:51 PM
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I'll wait for Mike L or someone that is a reputable Trans Builder but I would always have a Trans built by someone that knows what they are doing.
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:55 PM
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The company that built it is called Certified Transmission, they are nation wide. This is who the Local shop recommended, sold, and used as the solution. Their website states they are Nation wide.
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:58 PM
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Are you sure your front dif is disengaging , I had a problem with the t case not disengaging and I solved it by just flushing out the front dif and new synthetic fluid ! Sorry to hear about your disaster ! Good luck !!!
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Are you sure your front dif is disengaging , I had a problem with the t case not disengaging and I solved it by just flushing out the front dif and new synthetic fluid
Worth a try, however, I had it serviced just last summer. All techs so far agree now, that it is something to do with the output shaft of transmission spinning when transmission is shifted to neutral....
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:17 PM
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that is some shitty luck

where are you located? you thing just says out west, we might be able to suggest a more reputable shop. From what I'm reading, no one knows what the hell they are doing to your truck

also, IIRC t case blowing multiple output seals is usually a worn tail housing bushing

that is
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:22 PM
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Have you tried putting the truck in park when shifting the t-case out of low? Another trick is to stop and back up before shifting. That way it takes the stress off the low gears. Only need to back up about 2-3 ft.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
IIRC t case blowing multiple output seals is usually a worn tail housing bushing
Yes, that is the mechanical term that was failing me, also 4 low was shot stating planetary gears or shift forks, etc.

As to another shop, I am in Idaho, Pocatello to be exact, 160 miles due north of Salt Lake City.

Financially I am broke, and don't know what certified is going to due on return of transmission. I have a call into them in the morning to see where this is headed.

I just was hoping with what I posted, Someone could diagnose or give me a heads up if there is any validity to what mechanics are stating...
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:23 PM
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Does it have the same issue if you try to put the truck in park while switching from 4LO to 4HI?
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:23 PM
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That really sucks man. How far are you from ATP trucks?

ATPTrucks
1854 E Lanark St
Meridian, ID 83642

I'm super glad I have one of the best transmission builders in the nation close to me.

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Old 02-05-2019, 07:56 PM
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If the output shaft is indeed turning, that means the input shaft is still turning and it's not supposed to at a stand still. Need to hook up a scanner and watch the turbine speed sensor. It better go to " 0 " when standing still. If not, a clutch in the trans is not holding.
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Old 02-05-2019, 08:07 PM
Jacy_dzlguy Jacy_dzlguy is offline
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Find a shop that knows what they are doing.
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Old 02-05-2019, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Does it have the same issue if you try to put the truck in park while switching from 4LO to 4HI?
This action definitely causes it to grind its brains out, it is nasty loud.

Quote:
That really sucks man. How far are you from ATP trucks?
Not sure where they are located.

Quote:
If the output shaft is indeed turning, that means the input shaft is still turning and it's not supposed to at a stand still. Need to hook up a scanner and watch the turbine speed sensor. It better go to " 0 " when standing still. If not, a clutch in the trans is not holding.
Will have this checked out in the A.M. Thank you. Curious, would a Relearn help this? The intial relearn failed, so the tech just cleared its memory.

One note to add, while truck is in 2wd, shifting from park to drive, when it shifts to drive, it instantly applies torque, you feel the surge against the brake. Not sure if this is normal. Also it is slow to respond going through the sift lever from D to N to R to P. Meening it takes a minute for the transmission to catch up. and you can feel the surge in each shift in that manner while at a stop.
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2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD LLY SLT CCSB EFI Live/BDGTCLT w/Sensor Dock
Stock Garrett Turbo/2007 Intercooler
AFE Intake/S&B Turbo Inlet Elbow
MBRP 3" Downpipe/4" Straight Exhaust w/Aero Muffler
CP3 Industrial Injection BagoParts/FASS 150 LP w/Sump
SuperTank 52G Tank w/04 Top Half/05 Bottom half Sending unit
RedHead SGB/Cognito A-Arms/Idler & Pitman Braces/FabTech Tie Rods
ProComp Level Keys/Tuff Country Add-A-Leaf
Hellwig HD Front/Rear Sway Bars/SSM 1" Endlinks
FOX 2.0 Shocks/Firestone Ride Rite Air Bags
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raceghost View Post
This action definitely causes it to grind its brains out, it is nasty loud.



Not sure where they are located.



Will have this checked out in the A.M. Thank you. Curious, would a Relearn help this? The intial relearn failed, so the tech just cleared its memory.

One note to add, while truck is in 2wd, shifting from park to drive, when it shifts to drive, it instantly applies torque, you feel the surge against the brake. Not sure if this is normal. Also it is slow to respond going through the sift lever from D to N to R to P. Meening it takes a minute for the transmission to catch up. and you can feel the surge in each shift in that manner while at a stop.
The address is in my post
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:05 AM
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Sounds like bad or wrong torque converter...
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