Duramax Diesels Forum Truck of the Week
  #736  
Old 10-19-2018, 01:06 PM
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2004LB7 2004LB7 is offline
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So who's software/firmware is loaded on the new chip? I suspect it is a bootleg GM L5P. I couldn't imagine that HP tuning built one from scratch and managed to get it to talk with all of the other modules in the truck
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  #737  
Old 10-21-2018, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2004LB7 View Post
So who's software/firmware is loaded on the new chip? I suspect it is a bootleg GM L5P. I couldn't imagine that HP tuning built one from scratch and managed to get it to talk with all of the other modules in the truck
It's probably running GM's stock programming. I could be wrong and these processors could be different, but think of your home PC - your OS, apps and files don't live on the CPU - they are on your HDD/SSD. The CPU just processes the data and makes it all work. The older LS1 PCMs stored their programming on a small flash chip that has no processing capabilities. The CPUs on the new ECMs may have flash memory onboard, but in the end, it's a CPU. My guess is they are replacing it because the 'feature' that does the signature verification (which is what is the tuning 'speedbump') is a part of the CPU that can't be 'turned off' (once it's on, it's on, or the CPUs are made either with it or without it), so they're replacing the CPU with one that doesn't have the 'feature' enabled. As for why GM's tools would no longer be able to flash the ECM, my guess is the flash process is looking for that signature verification, and if it doesn't get it because it's not enabled in the CPU, it'll fail.
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Last edited by Cougar281; 10-21-2018 at 05:17 PM.
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  #738  
Old 10-21-2018, 09:14 AM
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I agree with Cougar281. My only thought is the new CPU just has a different key loaded, and verifies a different signature. So HPT puts a new CPU on, and signs the stock program with their key, which the new CPU accepts. That would also explain why it won't accept a reflash from GM, since it no longer honors the GM key.
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  #739  
Old 10-21-2018, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DAVe3283 View Post
I agree with Cougar281. My only thought is the new CPU just has a different key loaded, and verifies a different signature. So HPT puts a new CPU on, and signs the stock program with their key, which the new CPU accepts. That would also explain why it won't accept a reflash from GM, since it no longer honors the GM key.
That's a possibility too. Hadn't really thought of that one, but that could explain why it can only be tuned by HPT.
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Mike L Trans built by ME.
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300.59' 3rd place first pull

Best 1/4 times:
Truck: 14.067 @ 96.29, weighing in at over 7200#
446.4RWHP/820.2RWTq
Car (95 Cougar 4.6L V8): 14.680 @ 94.00

"The FIRST weapon is the mind, all others are incidental."
"I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six."
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  #740  
Old Yesterday, 08:44 AM
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They changed the lock on the door...........locked GM and everyone out, its the same as GM did, kinda funny in a way............there had to be some kind of info gotten from GM IMHO on how to change the lock.



I guess the fact that no reverse engineering of GM's key was done it is as simple as changing the lock but leaving the contents the same..........that is where it gets sticky...........but we can leave that to the lawyers and courts to figure out, if it goes there...............
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  #741  
Old Yesterday, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC_2002_Dmax View Post
They changed the lock on the door...........locked GM and everyone out, its the same as GM did, kinda funny in a way............there had to be some kind of info gotten from GM IMHO on how to change the lock.



I guess the fact that no reverse engineering of GM's key was done it is as simple as changing the lock but leaving the contents the same..........that is where it gets sticky...........but we can leave that to the lawyers and courts to figure out, if it goes there...............
Its not any different than any of the DSP or CSP tunes that EFILive claims as theirs yet it's 99.99% OEM Code. And no info is needed from GM. Just an understanding of how processors work. Just think LB7 & LLY locking. No real need to over complicate it.
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  #742  
Old Yesterday, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chavez91 View Post
Its not any different than any of the DSP or CSP tunes that EFILive claims as theirs yet it's 99.99% OEM Code. And no info is needed from GM. Just an understanding of how processors work. Just think LB7 & LLY locking. No real need to over complicate it.
I would argue that is not AT ALL the case - the older ECMs - LB7, LLY, LBZ, LMM and probably even LML, would generally accept whatever you tried to flash them (within reason), even if it had issues which caused it to brick - what has been done here is different. With previous generations, all tuning was done on a GM OS. With the DSP & CSP, yes, it was largely a GM (or Cummins) OS that was modified to accept multiple tunes based on specific inputs. But in the end, it was not corrupted and acceptable for the processor, so it ran. With the L5P, the same *could* apply, *except* for the signature verification part. I won't claim to know EXACTLY how it works - whether it's part of the CPU, the flash memory, or some combination, but the fact that they are replacing the CPU suggests that it's part of the CPU.

That being said, what Dave and Tony said makes total sense. They could have replaced the CPU with one that had no keys to the door - but that would have allowed other companies like EFILive to tune any ECM that they unlocked - In my opinion, I think that's a bit overboard, since at this point, they're charging a nice chunk to unlock, but whatever - point being, all they appear to have have done is changed the lock on the door (While I hadn't thought of this, I met Tony a number of years ago, and IMO, he is and was a straight shooter, so if he says that IS what they did, I personally have no reason to doubt him), not what is behind it any more than was the case for non-DSP or CSP OSes from EFILive - where all we did was read what was in the ECM, make changes and flash it back. In the end, I strongly suspect that the HPT L5P tuning is no different from HPT or EFI tuning of LB7, LLY, LBZ, LMM and even to a degree, LML tuning, (except for the DSP OSes), with the only exception being the signature verification (keys), which they have changed in their modded processors.

To break it down to the most basic level, it's no different than EFILive's ability to lock ECMs by changing it's seed/key pair which prevents reads and writes (except for the newer ECMs like the LBZ, LMM and maybe LML that allow writes but not reads, however that works). Just a different mechanism is used.
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'04.5 2500HD Silverado LT CC/LB, LBZ D/A Dark Grey
Metallic, 05+ HD Hood & Grille, 192k and counting
Mike L Trans built by ME.
EFILive, PPE Race Valve, KD Twin Lift Pumps & Billet Fuel Pickup, MBRP 4" "Cat-Back" T409 straight piped.

300.59' 3rd place first pull

Best 1/4 times:
Truck: 14.067 @ 96.29, weighing in at over 7200#
446.4RWHP/820.2RWTq
Car (95 Cougar 4.6L V8): 14.680 @ 94.00

"The FIRST weapon is the mind, all others are incidental."
"I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six."
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