Duramax Diesels Forum Truck of the Week
  #16  
Old 11-09-2010, 02:51 PM
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Just an update. Ross has contacted Ben about this.

Cylinder numbers and injector numbers are not the same (ie. Cyl 1 is not Inj 1); so we may need to review our terminology.

Cheers
Cindy
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2010, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EFI Support View Post
Just an update. Ross has contacted Ben about this.

Cylinder numbers and injector numbers are not the same (ie. Cyl 1 is not Inj 1); so we may need to review our terminology.

Cheers
Cindy

This is old news......Can someone simply post the correct order?

This has cost me a lot of money in the past
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  #18  
Old 11-15-2010, 10:15 PM
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I wondered about this when my injectors were shitting out. Id turn off the injector scanned to be bad, and nothing would happen. Why dont they just correlate to cylinder? What other order would there be?
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  #19  
Old 11-15-2010, 10:35 PM
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Firing order?
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  #20  
Old 11-16-2010, 12:34 AM
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Wow!! This is really a shocking thing to find out! How many people have changed out injectors for no reason or looking in the wrong holes for problems because of this?

If the balance rates are brought up and labeled 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, then firing order should be irrelevant. Cylinder 2 should be cylinder 2, not the second cylinder in the firing order. Same with cylinder 5, it should be cylinder 5 according to the engine cylinder numbering, not the 5th cylinder in the firing sequence.

Following firing order seems like a backwards way to do it in my eyes if it is displayed chronologically and not as per the firing order- i.e. 1 2 7 8 4 5 6 3. Although it is important to know what your firing order is as one malfunctioning hole can cause the next one in the firing order to also read out of range.
  #21  
Old 11-16-2010, 06:32 AM
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The balance rates do follow GM's cylinder numbering.
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  #22  
Old 11-16-2010, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshH View Post
The balance rates do follow GM's cylinder numbering.
That's what confused me so badlyi
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  #23  
Old 11-16-2010, 10:35 AM
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For what it worth ... Ben thought it was Cyl #7 with EFI Live but with the Tech 2 it was actually Cyl #3. From the prevoius confusion that the gasser guys were having ... the difference was using the firing order vs. cylinder order.

My stab in the dark on the Duramax issue -

When you DVT Cylinder #7, EFI Live is actually going through the trouble to look up which cylinder it really is in the firing order and thus turning that one off ???????? Cyl #7 is the 3rd cylinder in the firing order (1 2 7 8 4 5 6 3), and thus it turns of Cyl #3 and not Cyl #7.

This is a total wild azz guess ... but might explain why it did what it did. And YES!!!!!! I totally agree that this is a MAJOR BUG and needs to be fixed ASAP!!!!
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  #24  
Old 11-16-2010, 03:18 PM
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The Scan Tool information provided by GM is what we've displayed in our software. If this is incorrect or if the terminology is incorrect we need to fix it.

We have asked both in the thread on our forum, and privately to a number of users for further testing so we can be sure what we modify is for the benefit of all users, however that information hasn't been forthcoming.

Until we can disprove GM documentation with evidence (not hearsay and banter) we are not in a position to make changes.

Cheers
Cindy
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  #25  
Old 11-16-2010, 04:06 PM
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Good information to keep on hand....Hopefully this mystery gets solved
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  #26  
Old 11-16-2010, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duratothemax View Post
Ok sorry guys, just kinda frustrated here but oh well...

So 3 hours away from home last night I lost an injector. Started clacking/knocking/POURING white smoke. 25 miles after I filled up with fuel, go figure.

I had my truck towed to my buddys house in burlington cause he has a good sized garage. I didnt bring my tech 2 with me (stupid), so I used the DVT's in EFILive to try to diagnose the problem. I guessed it was an injector because the noise was an upper end "clack" and not a bottom end "knock", and I have no blowby or any other mechanical problems. Thick white/gray smoke is obviously fuel.

So I use the EFILive DVT's to shut off injectors. I get to #7 and the smoke goes away and the knocking immediately stops. YAY!! Found the problem. So then I call up Schulte (huge thanks, put it on my tab of things I owe you for bud ) and he meets me halfway between burlington VT and home in CT... so we each drive about 2 hours, him a little more. He brings me a set of good used injectors to get me home. I drive back up to burlington...theres no heat in the garage so at this point ive been working all day in ~38* replacing injectors. I swap my 40% tip over to a good used injector and put it in. Still knocks, no change. So I think ok maybe the tip is clogged, so I put in a good/used/stock injector. Still no change, smokes/knocks.

So I pull up efilive again, balance rates are all over the place. Use the DVT's and shut off injector #7. Smoke/knock stops. WTF!!!!! At this point its getting late and I just need to get back home because I have customers trucks in the shop tieing up the lift that I need to get done, business stuff, etc...

I call ScratchRob and he comes with the gooseneck and his LBZ to pick me up...I think he ended up driving 700 miles between getting his trailer, driving to VT, and driving back to my house. I owe you too, we agreed on a bazillion dollars compensation and a set of BT DieselWorks twins. Thank god I have such great friends...

So I go mess around with my truck this morning. This time I grab the Tech 2 and discover something interesting.

I fire it up, knocking, smoking etc. I go to the injector shut off/cylinder power balance thing in the Tech 2. I shut off injector #7, no change, still knocks. Shut off injector #3....KNOCK STOPS. Shut off injector #7 with EFILIve DVT's, and the knock stops.

Interesting.... I hope I didnt work all day in a 40* garage and make two of my friends drive hundreds of miles all because the DVT was telling the wrong injector to shut off...???

Ben
Ben, I've noticed similar issues comparing my SnapOn Solo plus and EFILive DVT. The difference being with Balance rates and showing the actual cylinder. I don't know though, I need to do it again with detailed discription.
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  #27  
Old 12-19-2010, 03:47 PM
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Just an update to this thread given it's been idle for a month, we are yet to find someone who is able to assist in controlled testing to prove/disprove this issue.

The tester needs to have access to both EFILive and a Tech II. If you are willing to assist, please email me cindy at efilive dot com.

We are willing to investigate and make changes to our software, but only if we have adequate test results.

Cheers
Cindy
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  #28  
Old 12-19-2010, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EFI Support View Post
Just an update to this thread given it's been idle for a month, we are yet to find someone who is able to assist in controlled testing to prove/disprove this issue.

The tester needs to have access to both EFILive and a Tech II. If you are willing to assist, please email me cindy at efilive dot com.

We are willing to investigate and make changes to our software, but only if we have adequate test results.

Cheers
Cindy
What exactly do you need tested Cindy? After Josh H posted i kinda feel like a ass........... if he is correct But I truly want to know, What is the real deal.
And honestly I dont want to rely on what DURATOTHEMAXI says.
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  #29  
Old 12-19-2010, 04:15 PM
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Ok,I checked balance rates and found what i suspected a bad injector. I swapped the injector with a brand new injector but the modded tip that was a 40% over

The tip was swapped by a qualifed BOSCH dealer and tested at low pressure only

After swapping the new inj with the used tip I had the exact same balance rate ( +6 )???WTF I did a compression test before the inj swap and di not see any reason for compression being a issue

I then after talking to the SELLER of the 40 overs injectors. I purchased a complete new set of 100 over injectors and the problom went away

was it the injector or just simply me replacing the wrong injector
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  #30  
Old 12-19-2010, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetdiesel View Post
What exactly do you need tested Cindy? After Josh H posted i kinda feel like a ass........... if he is correct But I truly want to know, What is the real deal.
And honestly I dont want to rely on what DURATOTHEMAXI says.
The ultimate aim is that we want to map the 8 cylinder/injector numbers in the Tech II physically against the engine and then marry them against what we have in EFILive (which people are saying is different).

Once that test is done, we'll determine what action is needed.

Customer feedback is what drives our product, however we can't implement change unless we can backup that feedback with demonstrated fact. It makes no difference to us who delivers the message, while it is heresay nothing will change.

We have had an offer of assistance since my post a few hours ago. Hopefully we can update this thread soon with some results.

Cheers
Cindy
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