Duramax Diesels Forum Truck of the Week
  #31  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Chevy1925 View Post
if you are going a max of 800hp, there is no need for main studs but if you want to run them, line hone/bore the mains. it would be a good idea to have it done anyhow to open up oil clearance a smidge and make sure you have 0 issues with out-of-round and taper from the bores. if the machine shop knows what they are doing, they will know there is no over sized bearings for the engine and to be very careful not to take too much out.

personally, i would run fingers pistons as well. the extra cost is worth the piece of mind. if you are not willing to switch, make sure you run a turbo setup that will get you to the 800hp mark with a fueling pulse width that is not very high. this will help the pistons live longer. that 4088 wont be enough, you will need a twin on top of it or something else all together.

i would have the block/crank fluxed and checked over but if it was not burning coolant before or gave signs of it, i wouldnt worry about having it pressure checked. they heads should be pressure checked and gone over well though.

make sure you have the 42160 ring set for the pistons, the 41909 do not use the correct metals to be used in a truck looking for longevity out of them.

Run Clevite H bearings, they will be plenty for you. you can get away with stock or P bearings for the cam if the cam is stock or mild. be sure to key the cam and crank shafts.

who will be assembling it?
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James,
I was planning on assembling it. It's a first time/pride thing, and I would also wan't to know that it was done as right as could be done by myself without shortcuts. What's your take?

The place handling the engine block is Gregory's Fleet supply and Machine shop. The guy running the show there was recommended to me by a place called Blackwater Engines, a large scale industrial Duramax engine builder here in VA Beach who has long standing ties machine shop wise with this guy. His prices seem high but he seemed genuine, provided I get my block back and not an old block he swapped for a friend. I'm retired military and have trust issues.

I ordered Clevite H main and rod bearings through him for a few dollars less than what I could get online and gave him both sets of main bolts (ARP and factory) with caps but told him if it was more than a quick hone or reshaping the bearings, I would just go with the factory bolts rather than give him an extra $500 to bore the crank bores. Thanks for the good news on the not needing the ARP studs at this point.
He's boring to .020 over for $200, (fluxing I believe), cleaning for $100, and going to pressure test for $150. I asked about him doing an internal balance and he said $500 or $300 if I figured out the weights, which I had done. I've not agreed to that and don't really think I'm going to go that route with him. The Carillos came with a balanced weights card. The PPE Mahle's were all the same less one piston that was 1.5 grams light. From what I've found, that's about the weight of a 1/2 sheet of paper and not worth worrying about as less than 2g total weight per assembly as a whole is minimal for a diesel. Rings and pins were the same. I weighted my old LBZ piston/crank assemblies and they were all over the place, as far as 14grams difference, and all of my bearings looked really nice for the mileage. The new stuff is quite a bit lighter even with the Carillos and heavy pins by about 65g if I remember correctly.

The Mahle rings that came with the pistons are 42160-020 so we're good so long as they don't screw up the block.

The crank is getting keyed at another less confident very general fabrication shop (the first I found) and we're at 23 days now with a promised NLT Thursday of last week.

The cam is due back tomorrow with a mild grind from Shannon's now in Tacoma. I will need to get it keyed locally as well by someone skilled in the importance of precision keying.
I wasn't going to worry about the heads as the engine had great compression 380-400psi per cylinder before I disassembled it.
Thank you for the fueling pulse width information. I had no idea. The Male PPE performance piston set is .020 over and 16.5:1 for $1340 delivered to my door. I would have very much liked the higher compression ratios and genius design from Fingers 17.5:1 but was advised against going higher than 16.5:1 due to more lower end strain risk and higher head pressures. Not to mention from what I found online, I would have paid $2300-$2700 for Fingers and I'm not planning weekend trips to the drag strip.
The GT4088r bearing turbo that I purchased is probably the largest I can likely fit on the pedestal in the valley (hopefully). It claims about 700hp and that's with the standard impeller. The GTX claims 800 plus with an 11 blade so that was my thinking. The turbo falls right smack in the middle of the windshield frame on the Hummer and so it's gonna be close. I suppose I could use the 4088 as a twin and put the factory VV-3788 back in the valley? Not sure how that would work, or vice-versa?
The goal right now is to get my block, crank, and cam back in ready condition and get the thing back together and running so that I can move on to the next stage of the build. Right now I've got a lot out there and no positive forward gains and it's time for me to start reassembling the monster collection of parts if I can remember where they all go! I'll post some pics as well. Thanks for the guidance.
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  #32  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 04jimc View Post
Sleeved cyl

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Your machine shop is taking care of you price wise with sleeved cylinders and machine work compared to what I'm getting here in VA Beach. Looks nice and done well!
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  #33  
Old 09-13-2017, 02:29 PM
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I really can't see that charger getting you to the 700-800 mark on fuel only, and definitely would not make for a good atmosphereic charger over stock. What is your fuel system going to consist of?
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  #34  
Old 09-13-2017, 02:37 PM
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What do you plan on using to get to the 800 rwhp ? NOS , what injectors , what cp3 or 3s water meth , what tuner ? I was just wondering , but I might have missed it , thanks . This will be interesting to watch , keep us posted ! Good luck !
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  #35  
Old 09-13-2017, 03:08 PM
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Oh yes, I forgot to ask about the trans , what converter etc , thanks .
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AFE Blade Runner ;DHD Big Air intake;DHD fuel block;DHD pcv reroute;MBRP 4 inch exhaust;DHD 3 inch downpipe; BD driver's side manifold; DHD pass side up pipe ;DHD 3 inch intercooler in and out pipes by Big Foot on & off road shop ; shimmed fprv; FASS fuel system; 5/8 inch pickup; FASS fuel filter delete; EFI live, 5 position switch 250 hp big tune by Crank it up ; built SunCoast Allison 1078 converter by Limitless Diesel; Sulastic shackles;ARP head studs; grade C gaskets; tig-welded water pump ;T stats; by Blackout performance; Merchant t case brace and pump rub kit;drive shaft 1480joints Greensburg machine,BDS Recoil traction bars , 5100s
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  #36  
Old 09-13-2017, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostwhore View Post
I really can't see that charger getting you to the 700-800 mark on fuel only, and definitely would not make for a good atmosphereic charger over stock. What is your fuel system going to consist of?
Fuel system wise, I've made a few high priced mistakes that I think I'm going to have to live with for a couple years at least. The new gt4088r turbo and pedestal being one possible mistake. On the fuel delivery side, I have a 2016 installed CP3 reman-standard size from what I can tell, and then with a no start eBay engine and possibly having a stuck open injector, I went and dropped $2800 on new Bosch factory injectors. I have a new 165gph Airdog4g lift pump, race plug, 1/2" fuel rail inlets and 1/2" fuel pump inlet. Was going to do the 19% over "Bag of Parts" CP3 kit, but then found out that no matter how much air I'm flowing and fuel I'm pumping to the injectors, it won't matter unless I go with either larger injector nozzles, say 100% over ($2K+) or add a supplemental fuel of some sort, i.e. NO2 ($1K) or Propane ($2K). I've looked and Nitros seemed like the least costly, most healthy for the engine option although I would prefer just going with more diesel.
Any pointers on this are welcome, keeping in mind, I've got over 15K engine alone and have yet to hear it run.
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  #37  
Old 09-13-2017, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogman1 View Post
__________________________________________________ _______

James,
I was planning on assembling it. It's a first time/pride thing, and I would also wan't to know that it was done as right as could be done by myself without shortcuts. What's your take?

The place handling the engine block is Gregory's Fleet supply and Machine shop. The guy running the show there was recommended to me by a place called Blackwater Engines, a large scale industrial Duramax engine builder here in VA Beach who has long standing ties machine shop wise with this guy. His prices seem high but he seemed genuine, provided I get my block back and not an old block he swapped for a friend. I'm retired military and have trust issues.

I ordered Clevite H main and rod bearings through him for a few dollars less than what I could get online and gave him both sets of main bolts (ARP and factory) with caps but told him if it was more than a quick hone or reshaping the bearings, I would just go with the factory bolts rather than give him an extra $500 to bore the crank bores. Thanks for the good news on the not needing the ARP studs at this point.
He's boring to .020 over for $200, (fluxing I believe), cleaning for $100, and going to pressure test for $150. I asked about him doing an internal balance and he said $500 or $300 if I figured out the weights, which I had done. I've not agreed to that and don't really think I'm going to go that route with him. The Carillos came with a balanced weights card. The PPE Mahle's were all the same less one piston that was 1.5 grams light. From what I've found, that's about the weight of a 1/2 sheet of paper and not worth worrying about as less than 2g total weight per assembly as a whole is minimal for a diesel. Rings and pins were the same. I weighted my old LBZ piston/crank assemblies and they were all over the place, as far as 14grams difference, and all of my bearings looked really nice for the mileage. The new stuff is quite a bit lighter even with the Carillos and heavy pins by about 65g if I remember correctly.

The Mahle rings that came with the pistons are 42160-020 so we're good so long as they don't screw up the block.

The crank is getting keyed at another less confident very general fabrication shop (the first I found) and we're at 23 days now with a promised NLT Thursday of last week.

The cam is due back tomorrow with a mild grind from Shannon's now in Tacoma. I will need to get it keyed locally as well by someone skilled in the importance of precision keying.
I wasn't going to worry about the heads as the engine had great compression 380-400psi per cylinder before I disassembled it.
Thank you for the fueling pulse width information. I had no idea. The Male PPE performance piston set is .020 over and 16.5:1 for $1340 delivered to my door. I would have very much liked the higher compression ratios and genius design from Fingers 17.5:1 but was advised against going higher than 16.5:1 due to more lower end strain risk and higher head pressures. Not to mention from what I found online, I would have paid $2300-$2700 for Fingers and I'm not planning weekend trips to the drag strip.
The GT4088r bearing turbo that I purchased is probably the largest I can likely fit on the pedestal in the valley (hopefully). It claims about 700hp and that's with the standard impeller. The GTX claims 800 plus with an 11 blade so that was my thinking. The turbo falls right smack in the middle of the windshield frame on the Hummer and so it's gonna be close. I suppose I could use the 4088 as a twin and put the factory VV-3788 back in the valley? Not sure how that would work, or vice-versa?
The goal right now is to get my block, crank, and cam back in ready condition and get the thing back together and running so that I can move on to the next stage of the build. Right now I've got a lot out there and no positive forward gains and it's time for me to start reassembling the monster collection of parts if I can remember where they all go! I'll post some pics as well. Thanks for the guidance.
if you are assembling it and having things done at all different places, i would REALLY suggest you get yourself a bore gauge for rods, mains and piston bores so you can double check taper, out of round, clearances, and so on. i would also get a piston protursion gauge so you can see just how much clearance you have there and get the appropriate head gaskets. does the machine shop have an idea of how much protrusion you want or need for the hp you are after? did they suggest a specific piston to head clearance? things to think about for your build.

to get that turbo any where near its "max" will require a ton of fuel with high drive pressures. not ideal for piston longevity. i have also not seen that turbo make that claim of hp on a dmax. it may be a gasser hp claim you are reading. i would put that 4088 in the valley and put a twin on top of that, then run some decent sized sticks like 60-100% overs. OR since this thing is an LBZ, i would do a danville 68 in the valley and a 483 or 485 over top of it. neither will be a cheap setup but it will help get you on a safer power level if you plan to use that 800hp quite often in that heavy pig.
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02 LL7 2500HD CC/LB dmax/alli "The Limo"

BIG THANKS TO: Mike L, Steve, Trent, Guy, Dan, Ruben, Josh H, Scott, Brian and everyone else who has put a hand in to help me.

best time to date: 12.39

motor died/bent rods = 3/11/11
back from the dead 7:04pm 4/9/2012

Limo is back in the garage, now driving a built chevy tracker
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  #38  
Old 09-13-2017, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by torqued2dmax View Post
Oh yes, I forgot to ask about the trans , what converter etc , thanks .
I've got an 07' Allison with the PPE stage 5 kit and Billet Stator triple disc torque converter in the line out of things to put together and have the 263HD manual transfer case that I've put the Merchant's saver plate into.
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  #39  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:17 PM
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Mistakes , is another way of saying , I need to sell a few things to someone who needs them , and then buy the right parts . We all make mistakes , dont beat yourself up ! You have great injectors to send out to be made to your specs , 100% like you said is fine , . The air dog is fine , then get a nice new 10mm stroker . or find out what you really have ! Did you do a tank sump ? EFI live is great , if done by a pro on this site . The more fuel and air that you stated will work great ! A larger turbo when you can and a HD built trans!
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AFE Blade Runner ;DHD Big Air intake;DHD fuel block;DHD pcv reroute;MBRP 4 inch exhaust;DHD 3 inch downpipe; BD driver's side manifold; DHD pass side up pipe ;DHD 3 inch intercooler in and out pipes by Big Foot on & off road shop ; shimmed fprv; FASS fuel system; 5/8 inch pickup; FASS fuel filter delete; EFI live, 5 position switch 250 hp big tune by Crank it up ; built SunCoast Allison 1078 converter by Limitless Diesel; Sulastic shackles;ARP head studs; grade C gaskets; tig-welded water pump ;T stats; by Blackout performance; Merchant t case brace and pump rub kit;drive shaft 1480joints Greensburg machine,BDS Recoil traction bars , 5100s
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  #40  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Chevy1925 View Post
if you are assembling it and having things done at all different places, i would REALLY suggest you get yourself a bore gauge for rods, mains and piston bores so you can double check taper, out of round, clearances, and so on. i would also get a piston protursion gauge so you can see just how much clearance you have there and get the appropriate head gaskets. does the machine shop have an idea of how much protrusion you want or need for the hp you are after? did they suggest a specific piston to head clearance? things to think about for your build.

to get that turbo any where near its "max" will require a ton of fuel with high drive pressures. not ideal for piston longevity. i have also not seen that turbo make that claim of hp on a dmax. it may be a gasser hp claim you are reading. i would put that 4088 in the valley and put a twin on top of that, then run some decent sized sticks like 60-100% overs. OR since this thing is an LBZ, i would do a danville 68 in the valley and a 483 or 485 over top of it. neither will be a cheap setup but it will help get you on a safer power level if you plan to use that 800hp quite often in that heavy pig.
It is a heavy pig and I don't expect her to float around effortlessly but the gear reduction 4x4 hubs should provide an amazing launch! Only one place is doing the block up to this point. I agree and definitely need to get a bore gauge to check the shop's work. Just got the cam back a few minutes ago and it looks nice from what I can tell. When you mention piston protrusion, I have not planed the block or heads and they both are clean and factory with the raised rings around the cylinders. I went with the C factory gaskets. and with the 16.5:1 pistons .020 over, I'm not going higher in the cylinder. As far as the protrusion, I was informed the Carillos and PPE Mahle PowerPak pistons would not cause any fitment problems. The machine shop is just boring out the cylinders with the plate on top and testing the block as of now.

As fas as the turbo and fueling, I'll put the 4088 in the valley and see how it fits and how things power up and take it from there with nozzles turbo upgrades, etc.
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  #41  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torqued2dmax View Post
Mistakes , is another way of saying , I need to sell a few things to someone who needs them , and then buy the right parts . We all make mistakes , dont beat yourself up ! You have great injectors to send out to be made to your specs , 100% like you said is fine , . The air dog is fine , then get a nice new 10mm stroker . or find out what you really have ! Did you do a tank sump ? EFI live is great , if done by a pro on this site . The more fuel and air that you stated will work great ! A larger turbo when you can and a HD built trans!
Thanks for the pointers. I looked at buying nozzles and the option of sending mine in as well.
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  #42  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:55 PM
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There won't be interference as they generally error on the side of it by taking .010 off the tops of the pistons compared to stock for a greater p to h clearance. Also gives room for decking the block (something I would for sure do). Problem is, if you don't account for p to h clearance, you can have a big quench area that is just going to waste fuel for the power you are after. These are cast pistons as well and do not need the clearance forge would need. I'd also keep piston to wall clearance tight (or on the loose side of stock specs).

So in other words, you could inadvertently be lowering compression even more than the 16.5:1 because of the grade c gaskets and not knowing where you want p to h clearance. This also increases quench which hurts mpg.
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02 LL7 2500HD CC/LB dmax/alli "The Limo"

BIG THANKS TO: Mike L, Steve, Trent, Guy, Dan, Ruben, Josh H, Scott, Brian and everyone else who has put a hand in to help me.

best time to date: 12.39

motor died/bent rods = 3/11/11
back from the dead 7:04pm 4/9/2012

Limo is back in the garage, now driving a built chevy tracker
Tailgate Crew Member #4
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  #43  
Old 09-13-2017, 09:45 PM
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Wow.. and the hole gets deeper! To hear that my compression could be lower and more wasteful by the gasket thickness choice among other things really takes things to a new level. I thank you for sharing the not so pleasant news that I enjoyed not knowing for a little. I might actually need to give the shop more money and have them ensure I'm getting the best build for what I've got parts wise. I kind of viewed it as plug and play, but now I see where the higher level knowledge comes into play. On a plus side, I'm waiting on some Cerekote to top coat the pistons so maybe a slight amount of dead space will be filled. I saw in an earlier post you asked, I did get a sump for the tank as well. I'll try and reach out to them at the machine shop tomorrow or Friday and I'll post here on the options. Thanks again for the education.
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  #44  
Old 09-14-2017, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogman1
..... The Male PPE performance piston set is .020 over and 16.5:1 for $1340 delivered to my door. I would have very much liked the higher compression ratios and genius design from Fingers 17.5:1 but was advised against going higher than 16.5:1 due to more lower end strain risk and higher head pressures. Not to mention from what I found online, I would have paid $2300-$2700 for Fingers and I'm not planning weekend trips to the drag strip.
.
.
Who Quoted you those Prices for my pistons? Way out of line.

Jon
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'04.5 EC/LB 4x4.
Howard Rods w/ oiler hole.
Oval Chambers and valve reliefs cut in Mahle Cast Pistons. 17.5:1
SoCal Stage 2 heads, 3388 Cam, Billet Flywheel, and harmonic balancer.
Danville 68mm VVT Turbo
100 over injectors.
PPE Dual CP3s
ProFab Castflow headers and uppipes.
100 PSIA MAP Sensor
Kennedy dual lift pump.

Dynoed 690 HP / 1200 TQ

Last edited by TheBac; 09-14-2017 at 06:43 PM. Reason: fixed the quote
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  #45  
Old 09-15-2017, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torqued2dmax View Post
Oh yes, I forgot to ask about the trans , what converter etc , thanks .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingers View Post
Who Quoted you those Prices for my pistons? Way out of line.

Jon
Jon,
no one specifically quoted me on your pistons. I search my arse off on forums and look at diesel parts suppliers trying to find out what parts are best and what prices I would end up paying comparatively. I saw the numbers cut with the oval bowls and then with reliefs customized as desired. I looked at your process and concluded you're taking the PowerPak uncut blanks and cutting the ovals, with or without valve reliefs as requested. Everyone who's running them expresses nothing but greatness. The only slightly negative statement I could find was about "a slight bit more unburnt fuel at lower RPMs than stock" on an LB7 I believe it was. The goal was to get the highest compression ratio on my LBZ possible without being to risky with my hopeful longevity and performance plan. PPE's biggest since they get Mahle to specialize for them and cut the lips off the bowls is 16.5:1 and the price was not beatable from what I could find. I'm new with this, and taking advice from the forum seniors that seem to have the most knowledge. I plan to Cerekote them when the paint arrives unless you have a better idea that will still allow me enough piston to head clearance. I'm using the "c" gaskets. The block and heads are factory untouched (not planed) and I didn't have plans to take the factory head gasket grooves off the block and reduce my piston/head gap. The machine shop has had the block since the 2nd with plans for cleaning, cylinder PSI leak test for pin holes, and to bore & hone to .020 over. My guess is they haven't started but I'll stop on by tomorrow and see.
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