Duramax Diesels Forum Truck of the Week
  #31  
Old 06-24-2013, 03:46 PM
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I could be wrong, but I believe Winberg is the only company to not have a failure in a duramax. I understand they are fairly new to our market, but they are probably worth their premium if that is in fact true.
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  #32  
Old 06-24-2013, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIESELMAFIAPER.LB7 View Post
gm isuzu doesnt build them... why not switch firing orders empire diesel has had great luck with a powerstroke(i think) firing order
1500 bucks is one reason... If that is the true fix then it would be worth it but I don't think they have enough of them out there to prove it is the fix. I'm not sure how you could, when one breaks at stock power and another holds 1000+ hp.
  #33  
Old 06-24-2013, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burn Down View Post
1500 bucks is one reason... If that is the true fix then it would be worth it but I don't think they have enough of them out there to prove it is the fix. I'm not sure how you could, when one breaks at stock power and another holds 1000+ hp.
Im sure someone could make the same cam cheaper
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  #34  
Old 06-24-2013, 04:43 PM
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billet grinds are about that much, our billet 6.4 cams are 1200 fwiw. I dont care if they are proven time and time again i wont ever run an empire product.
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  #35  
Old 06-24-2013, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingers View Post
Lets stick some numbers in here instead of going on conjecture.

A chamber pressure of 3500 PSI produces a load on the crank from a single cylinder of about 45,000 lbs. This happens between 7-14 ATDC.

A 10 gram swinging weight 4" from the center produces a 22.542 lb radial force on the crank.

I'm looking for the loading from the accessory belt and the loadings from the water and oil pumps. Need the loading for the CAM too.

With those, I can calc the radial and thrust loadings on the crank.
Won't different valve springs change the cam loading?

Do you think the cranks and or blocks could be flexing and the deflection under load affecting the structure?

The cranks are twist forged correct? If so would that align the molecules in a certain order or direction in the area the crank was twisted hot?
  #36  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:07 PM
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The failures are from flex fatigue, not twist.

Don't forget that as soon as the crank breaks, the journals lose their oil supply through the broken passage way in the crank. So crashed bearings will be seen on at least some cranks.
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  #37  
Old 06-24-2013, 10:04 PM
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How so? Mine broke enough to start slapping the piston skirt, but not break completely apart. Oil supply was still sound, mains 1, 2, and 3 had bearing wear but had not spun. The mains all the way back to 5 were later found to be about .0035" off from center at their worst and main bearing clearance had supposedly been set to .0030"-.0035"
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"Sore Subject" - Still don't have time for it.
I would never have learned what I have without George Alexander, Mike Lovrich, David Browning, Matt Handwork, Ben Tyler, Evan Drosehn and countless members of this forum and others.
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  #38  
Old 06-25-2013, 10:37 AM
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How so what?

The bearings in the dmax will hold out fairly well when the oil supply goes away, but not forever. So you will see crashed bearings on some broken cranks, but not all cranks that break will have bearing issues.

My point is, from what I can tell, spun bearing are NOT the cause of the crank breaking.

Also, from what I can tell, the support from the #1 main is inadequate.
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But.....What do I know.

'04.5 EC/LB 4x4.
Howard Rods w/ oiler hole.
Oval Chambers and valve reliefs cut in Mahle Cast Pistons. 17.5:1
SoCal Stage 2 heads, 3388 Cam, Billet Flywheel, and harmonic balancer.
Danville 68mm VVT Turbo
100 over injectors.
PPE Dual CP3s
ProFab Castflow headers and uppipes.
100 PSIA MAP Sensor
Kennedy dual lift pump.

Dynoed 690 HP / 1200 TQ
  #39  
Old 06-25-2013, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingers View Post
How so what?

The bearings in the dmax will hold out fairly well when the oil supply goes away, but not forever. So you will see crashed bearings on some broken cranks, but not all cranks that break will have bearing issues.

My point is, from what I can tell, spun bearing are NOT the cause of the crank breaking.

Also, from what I can tell, the support from the #1 main is inadequate.
To (somewhat) support that theory, I had a LMM I pulled apart that had a spun rod bearing that was bad enough to take a considerable amount of material out of the crank journal and it did not break the crank.

I say somewhat supports because it was at the rod location a spot forward of where the cranks always break.

Not sure if that helps any or not.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg LMM_CRANK_1.jpg (151.3 KB, 192 views)
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  #40  
Old 06-25-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fingers View Post
How so what?

The bearings in the dmax will hold out fairly well when the oil supply goes away, but not forever. So you will see crashed bearings on some broken cranks, but not all cranks that break will have bearing issues.

My point is, from what I can tell, spun bearing are NOT the cause of the crank breaking.

Also, from what I can tell, the support from the #1 main is inadequate.
I was asking how every broken crank causes oil supply to be lost through the broken passageway in the crank.

I agree with you, obviously, that spun bearings are not the main cause and that they are not even always a result, but I was giving an example of a broken crank that did NOT lose oil supply to the journals.
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  #41  
Old 06-25-2013, 12:38 PM
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A little testing....

Attached Images
File Type: jpg crank.jpg (107.7 KB, 655 views)
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But.....What do I know.

'04.5 EC/LB 4x4.
Howard Rods w/ oiler hole.
Oval Chambers and valve reliefs cut in Mahle Cast Pistons. 17.5:1
SoCal Stage 2 heads, 3388 Cam, Billet Flywheel, and harmonic balancer.
Danville 68mm VVT Turbo
100 over injectors.
PPE Dual CP3s
ProFab Castflow headers and uppipes.
100 PSIA MAP Sensor
Kennedy dual lift pump.

Dynoed 690 HP / 1200 TQ
  #42  
Old 06-26-2013, 05:26 AM
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Well? What's the latest?
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  #43  
Old 06-26-2013, 07:46 PM
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Measured deflection is about the same as the computer model's prediction.

I need to make a jig to hold the crank to I can squeeze on it like a piston and rod would.
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But.....What do I know.

'04.5 EC/LB 4x4.
Howard Rods w/ oiler hole.
Oval Chambers and valve reliefs cut in Mahle Cast Pistons. 17.5:1
SoCal Stage 2 heads, 3388 Cam, Billet Flywheel, and harmonic balancer.
Danville 68mm VVT Turbo
100 over injectors.
PPE Dual CP3s
ProFab Castflow headers and uppipes.
100 PSIA MAP Sensor
Kennedy dual lift pump.

Dynoed 690 HP / 1200 TQ
  #44  
Old 06-28-2013, 05:53 AM
jkholder09 jkholder09 is offline
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I can send some old rods over if you want them to make the jig.

Could you line bore 2 old block saddles and put them together to hold it at the main journals?
  #45  
Old 06-28-2013, 07:04 AM
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I have lots of old rods, thanks.

I need to work out how to keep the crank from turning while I squeeze it.

Tied up with piston production right now.
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But.....What do I know.

'04.5 EC/LB 4x4.
Howard Rods w/ oiler hole.
Oval Chambers and valve reliefs cut in Mahle Cast Pistons. 17.5:1
SoCal Stage 2 heads, 3388 Cam, Billet Flywheel, and harmonic balancer.
Danville 68mm VVT Turbo
100 over injectors.
PPE Dual CP3s
ProFab Castflow headers and uppipes.
100 PSIA MAP Sensor
Kennedy dual lift pump.

Dynoed 690 HP / 1200 TQ
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