Duramax Diesels Forum Truck of the Week
  #31  
Old 12-24-2016, 02:35 PM
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So would say 125 over sac injectors be easier to clean up then the same sized vco?


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  #32  
Old 12-24-2016, 07:38 PM
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From what I'm seeing, the flownumbers for the 45 over sacs don't even remotely match up anywhere with astock tune file, but if I use a stock lly table and correct it back for the larger nozzles(lly nozzles are smaller than lb7), all of the sudden the flow sheet numbers start making sense. Larger injectors would need less timing to quite a degree vs stock lb7 or stock lly, but sac nozzles at low rpm's nldo need quite a bit more timing than the same sized vco nozzle due to when a vco injector is triggerred, the fuel only has to pressurize the orifices then spray out, with sac nozzles you have to pressurize the chamber that the orifices feed from then the orifices before they inject fuel. As rpm's increase this lag decreases, and it also decreases with increased pressure(both of which explain why the lly has so much more timing in both the pilot and main tables as well as commands a larger pilot shot in the idle only areas). I'm just trying to get a game plan together before I go tuning mine. I had another tuner tell me to just pull 10% out and up idle pressure to 40 from 35, but from what I'm seeing, I think this way would work, but not work how I want my tunes to perform. I've spent over a year working out little quirks in my tune that others thought I was imagining, to say I'm OCD would be an understatement. My current tune is pretty good, but it's still not what I would consider to be 100%.

Part of me is dredding writing a new tune knowing how much time I put into one, but another part of me is excited to try something new. Need to do some quick logs before I tear mine down to get some baseline numbers for the lower fueling areas, then I can do some datalogging of displayed fuel rate, pulsewidth, and pressure, and formulate a fueling table that will be pretty close to actual. I'm not so concerned with 30mm3 and above as those areas get modified anyways, but I at least want to get up to 20mm3 pretty close.
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  #33  
Old 12-24-2016, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Awenta View Post
So would say 125 over sac injectors be easier to clean up then the same sized vco?


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From what I've read, they each have there stengths and weakness's. Vco's are supposed to clean up better since they don't have that chamber between the seat and orifices that causes a delay in pressure rise and injection. Vco's are supposed to be used where emissions are a concern since they are fairly precise in how they control the fueling, but there design carries some flaws. Sac's are supposed to have more even spray since there openings to the spray orifices are not the sealing surface and a wear area. Also the chamber between the seat and orifices allow sac's to have a more even spray pattern as pintle opening doesn't effect when the fuel hits the orifice. I'm very interested in learning what these smaller ones do, and hope to post up some findings since theres so little feedback out there on them.
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  #34  
Old 12-24-2016, 07:54 PM
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I've been doing research on this as well, as I'm having the same issue only a lighter hazing than you're having. From what I gather 45 overs will be perfect for a stock LB7 and give you that little extra play room for power upgrades. So same as you I will be biting the bullet here soon unfortunately.
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  #35  
Old 12-24-2016, 08:42 PM
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I've already done decided I'm doing the 65% SAC as I'll be needing them later down the line.

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  #36  
Old 12-25-2016, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THEFERMANATOR View Post
From what I'm seeing, the flownumbers for the 45 over sacs don't even remotely match up anywhere with astock tune file, but if I use a stock lly table and correct it back for the larger nozzles(lly nozzles are smaller than lb7), all of the sudden the flow sheet numbers start making sense. Larger injectors would need less timing to quite a degree vs stock lb7 or stock lly, but sac nozzles at low rpm's nldo need quite a bit more timing than the same sized vco nozzle due to when a vco injector is triggerred, the fuel only has to pressurize the orifices then spray out, with sac nozzles you have to pressurize the chamber that the orifices feed from then the orifices before they inject fuel. As rpm's increase this lag decreases, and it also decreases with increased pressure(both of which explain why the lly has so much more timing in both the pilot and main tables as well as commands a larger pilot shot in the idle only areas). I'm just trying to get a game plan together before I go tuning mine. I had another tuner tell me to just pull 10% out and up idle pressure to 40 from 35, but from what I'm seeing, I think this way would work, but not work how I want my tunes to perform. I've spent over a year working out little quirks in my tune that others thought I was imagining, to say I'm OCD would be an understatement. My current tune is pretty good, but it's still not what I would consider to be 100%.

Part of me is dredding writing a new tune knowing how much time I put into one, but another part of me is excited to try something new. Need to do some quick logs before I tear mine down to get some baseline numbers for the lower fueling areas, then I can do some datalogging of displayed fuel rate, pulsewidth, and pressure, and formulate a fueling table that will be pretty close to actual. I'm not so concerned with 30mm3 and above as those areas get modified anyways, but I at least want to get up to 20mm3 pretty close.
Thanks Ferm. Thats kind of what I was getting at, I just may have mis-spoke it.
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  #37  
Old 12-26-2016, 10:49 AM
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I put a set of 45%s in my extended cab
Just got it running the other day but it has some issues that need to be straightened out before I can take it for a drive
It's been a few months since I drove it & I changed a couple other things so I won't notice a difference
It'll be nice to get some mpg back & not have a smoke trail following me around, that was getting embarrassing at stop lights
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  #38  
Old 12-26-2016, 08:15 PM
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I had to have my SUB for Christmas for a road trip to the inlaws, so I flushed mine to buy me some time so I could do them when I get home. Got the new set sitting on the bench waiting, and wouldn't you know it, mine have cleared up and it's running great again. Now I'm kicking myself for having ordered new injectors, but I know if I hadn't it would have gone the other way. I'm pretty sure new nozzles would fix mine as its holding rail great, not returning much fuel, just had the infamous blue smoke at idle(then again, the facebook experts said injectors can't cause blue smoke. Guess I owe some people some money back and figure out why injectors fixxed there blue smoke problems).
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  #39  
Old 12-28-2016, 03:04 PM
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Finally getting these put in. Made an interesting observation of them. The stock vco's have the orifices up high on the taper and all on the same plane to inject at the same angle. The sacs have a much smaller tapered tip and have the orifices split on 2 planes. I couldn't get a good picture, but you can definately see an orifice up high, then one out the taper so that 4 are high up and 4 are out near the tip of the nozzle. I'll post comparisons pics, but they don't show up very well, and I'm not about to pull apart one of the new ones just so I can spray test them to show the difference.
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File Type: jpg 1228161657.jpg (177.3 KB, 83 views)
File Type: jpg 1228161658.jpg (170.9 KB, 82 views)
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  #40  
Old 12-29-2016, 08:23 PM
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Got it all buttoned up and running, and I cannot say I'm thrilled. 6 out of 8 of my balance rates are excellent, but #1 & #7 are less than stellar, actually worse than the ones I just removed. Not the outcome I wanted.
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  #41  
Old 12-29-2016, 08:26 PM
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That's gotta be a bit disappointing.

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  #42  
Old 12-29-2016, 08:29 PM
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Did you replace the whole injector? Where did they come from? Do you have flow sheets on them?


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  #43  
Old 12-29-2016, 08:49 PM
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Dang, +4, get a decent drive in?
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  #44  
Old 12-29-2016, 09:22 PM
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Bought complete injectors from lincoln because I didn't want this to happen. They gave me a generic flow sheet that is just for a set of the 45 over sacs. 1 & 7 were 2 of my best cylinders before. This was after about a 10 mile drive to get it up to temp, idling, no a/c. Theres also a nasty fuel smell to it if I rev it some which may be the stock LB7 tuning as I know it isn't the best for sac's, but it is RANK smelling. Not to mention when I did drive it, when I got on it a little bit, it blew HEAVY grey smoke. I'm going to straighten the tuning out some tommorrow, but I'm still not happy with having balance rates with a wider spread now than my hazers had.
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Last edited by THEFERMANATOR; 12-30-2016 at 02:09 PM.
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  #45  
Old 12-30-2016, 04:49 AM
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My balance rates on my LMM have always had two +3/-3 and sometimes a hair higher since 11k miles. Mine has a shitty fuel smell too, but no smoke.
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