Duramax Diesels Forum Truck of the Week
  #31  
Old 09-14-2017, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC_2002_Dmax View Post
Every tuner has customers that they just cannot make happy............its part of business, so we all accept that you just cannot please everyone.

I had a longer post written but is not worth posting.

I got a bunch of unhappy people now, and as far as response time, its really hard to be responsive after a hurricane hits your area, but most people don't give 2 SH!TS about your current situation, they will trash you because their free tire update didn't get to them the day they called or emailed you and told you they needed it done, even if your phones and internet and power was off for 2 or 3 days because of IRMA.

So anyone who has a bad thing to say, sit in my office for a day and try to balance 100+ calls a day and get out the volume of custom tunes a day most of us do, and wonder why no truly busy tuner has time for the small talk and 8 hours a day on a phone.

Its not that we don't want to take the call, but most of us have a front end to take the calls and act as a buffer, and the few calls we take put us behind because they are never 5 mins, they are always 30-45 mins with multiple "I got just 1 more Question"...........until you now have spent 45 mins on the phone.

Also we get customers that read wayyyyyyy too much stuff online and then refuse to listen to the tuner, so they create even more issues for themselves, and then you get negative feedback because they refused to do what you asked and instead went on GOOGLE, or YOU-TUBE or followed some internet post and made a bigger mess of their situation.

I repair no less than 15 LB7 ecms some months, not because of EFI-Live or my tuning, but because people refuse to pull fuses or follow simple directions, then get mad that they have to pay for an ecm repair !

Then you have the customers who utilize he wrong flash procedure, Full or Cal and then get an error on a Saturday Night, blow up your email, and FB Messenger and Office Phone, not because anything we did was wrong, but again because they failed to read directions and or look up the code in the PDF we send, so we get trashed because we suck and my truck won't flash.



Just my 0.02 cents after 11 years doing this...........most of the negative surrounding tuners and companies is most likely half the truth........but the general public does not know that.

And most think we work 8 hours a day, that is also not correct, my office is open 9am-5pm, but some days I am in a 6am and do not leave until 11pm...........its not a 9 to 5 job, unless you have low volume.

This is the truth my good buddy, it's always the tuners fault!
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  #32  
Old 09-14-2017, 06:00 AM
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I gotta say tony has always gone above and beyond for me the few times I've needed tuned. definitely has my business.
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  #33  
Old 09-14-2017, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC_2002_Dmax View Post
Every tuner has customers that they just cannot make happy............its part of business, so we all accept that you just cannot please everyone.

I had a longer post written but is not worth posting.

I got a bunch of unhappy people now, and as far as response time, its really hard to be responsive after a hurricane hits your area, but most people don't give 2 SH!TS about your current situation, they will trash you because their free tire update didn't get to them the day they called or emailed you and told you they needed it done, even if your phones and internet and power was off for 2 or 3 days because of IRMA.

So anyone who has a bad thing to say, sit in my office for a day and try to balance 100+ calls a day and get out the volume of custom tunes a day most of us do, and wonder why no truly busy tuner has time for the small talk and 8 hours a day on a phone.

Its not that we don't want to take the call, but most of us have a front end to take the calls and act as a buffer, and the few calls we take put us behind because they are never 5 mins, they are always 30-45 mins with multiple "I got just 1 more Question"...........until you now have spent 45 mins on the phone.

Also we get customers that read wayyyyyyy too much stuff online and then refuse to listen to the tuner, so they create even more issues for themselves, and then you get negative feedback because they refused to do what you asked and instead went on GOOGLE, or YOU-TUBE or followed some internet post and made a bigger mess of their situation.

I repair no less than 15 LB7 ecms some months, not because of EFI-Live or my tuning, but because people refuse to pull fuses or follow simple directions, then get mad that they have to pay for an ecm repair !

Then you have the customers who utilize he wrong flash procedure, Full or Cal and then get an error on a Saturday Night, blow up your email, and FB Messenger and Office Phone, not because anything we did was wrong, but again because they failed to read directions and or look up the code in the PDF we send, so we get trashed because we suck and my truck won't flash.



Just my 0.02 cents after 11 years doing this...........most of the negative surrounding tuners and companies is most likely half the truth........but the general public does not know that.

And most think we work 8 hours a day, that is also not correct, my office is open 9am-5pm, but some days I am in a 6am and do not leave until 11pm...........its not a 9 to 5 job, unless you have low volume.


Thanks for sharing , thats the truth don't get any more real than this


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  #34  
Old 09-14-2017, 07:18 AM
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I have also seen at the other way. I have had LML files get sent for an LBZ for updated tire sizes. I have seen many tuners blame hard parts and actual just being a tune issue. It goes hand-in-hand. It seems like way too many tuners grow too much for their own good. Then they lose that special customer service at they had with customers. To me it's part of business. A positive attitude and a little heads-up is always nice. Most guys don't mind when they tuner says it's going to be 5 to 10 days out.
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  #35  
Old 09-14-2017, 07:26 AM
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Duramax nate is also a plug


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  #36  
Old 09-14-2017, 07:38 AM
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The problem with a simple tuning fix is it is very difficult to get a tune dialed in and work out all the little bugs that may come up when you are working remotely. A datalog only goes so far; sometimes a person needs to physically be in the truck so they can see and feel what is going on along with looking at the data. The more a truck is modified, the more difficult that task becomes. I have no problem recommending any of the tuners on this forum and some that aren't because I know they provide a quality service, but I prefer to do my own tuning.

If the truck is stock or mostly stock (I consider basic mods like a built trans, lift pump, exhaust, intake, etc. mostly stock), you can pretty much flip a coin on who you choose.
Pretty much the only differences you'll see will be customer support (which will be relatively similar) and driveability. Most big tuners have been doing it so long, there will be no problems with driveability but a small difference in personal preference on how a person prefers a truck to respond while driving. Where you will start to see a difference is when you start changing turbos, injectors, build the engine and lower compression ratio and you start drag racing/sled pulling/etc with the truck. Whoever you choose, go into it with an open mind knowing that some things aren't that simple to accomplish, but if you aren't happy with your results, don't be afraid to try someone else. What you need to keep in mind is tuning will only get you so far; it is the whole package that makes a truck. If you don't put the correct pieces together the right way, you will never get the results you're after. Good luck to you in your choice. Diesel truck performance can be a fun but also frustrating journey.
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  #37  
Old 09-14-2017, 08:00 AM
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I'm an odd ball, I use Tyler Radewald with Punisher Performance. Like everyone said, I chose him because of his customer support.
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  #38  
Old 09-14-2017, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne-max View Post
I have also seen at the other way. I have had LML files get sent for an LBZ for updated tire sizes. I have seen many tuners blame hard parts and actual just being a tune issue. It goes hand-in-hand. It seems like way too many tuners grow too much for their own good. Then they lose that special customer service at they had with customers. To me it's part of business. A positive attitude and a little heads-up is always nice. Most guys don't mind when they tuner says it's going to be 5 to 10 days out.
Growth is part of the process, but it has to be controlled, if its left unbalanced issues are created, as a 1 man shop for 10 years I needed to grow, but I wanted to stay personal and small to not lose that identity, but the market forced me to grow, so I added a person, if I need to add more I will, but the bigger you get the more headaches you get.

And, we all make mistakes, its life, its an inconvenience,........as long as its addressed its all good...........also many people lack patience, and I have lost dealers and re-sellers because they lacked patience, and felt like they might have been mistreated, but they just had a bad day and moved on...........so it is what it is..........again, you cannot please everyone, I gave up trying to be the "WHITE KNIGHT".........you cannot save every "PRINCESS".........some have to be left in the towers for the other "KNIGHTS" to rescue............

Anyways,

When a tuner uses a "Base File", we all do, think of it as a recipe for a cake, the ingredients and cooking temp always bake the same cake, when you tweak the tune or recipe the majority of it stays the same, so when you have tweaked that recipe using the same base file over and over for the same basic builds and changes, and its worked for 5000 trucks, then you get the odd ball doing weird things chances are its not the tune.

The reason I do not use a lot of scripts is because its easier to tweak a tune file already built, tested and sold 1000's of times then re-run a script.

A perfect example I can give, I have a 2012 LML, its been tuned for almost 4 years, when I send the exact tune, literally, the tune I have in my truck to a shop or customer, and they complain of issues and blame the tune I can guarantee you it isn't the tune, its currently running in my truck and its a 2012 LML same as the tune you just asked for, and I can literally flash my truck with the exact tune I sent, and its 100% fine, its not the tune.

So you now become a detective, you start asking lots of questions, you find out it had a CP4 failure, you ask, did you clean and replace everything, including all the lines flushed out, tank dropped and cleaned, fuel cooler replaced, rails and all fuel related components have been replaced, feed and return lines, etc...........and you are told "YES", but you still get blamed for a shitty running truck even though they put a supposedly new CP4 on it and all the required new fuel system parts...........and then you get a charge-back 3 months later...........kinda pisses you off...........especially since its the 1st CP4 failure they worked on !!!

As a tuner, you do blame hard parts or other issues all the time, because when you sell 40,000 of something and go back to those proven tunes over and over and a truck is not right when the previous 5000 were spot on its usually the truck or related to some issue with the truck.

But try to explain it to a customer............or inexperienced shop with a V2 that just got into this industry.


and as Josh stated, a lot of us live tune big builds and go back to those base files, but we cannot hear or see anything in a log or as he stated feel what its doing, so we cannot often times fix it, we also get wrong information about what its doing............so when we can get our hands literally on it we fix them easily if you know what you are doing.

Anyone who does this knows that its not easy, if it were there would be a lot of well known tuners, but its not easy........and its getting more and more cut throat with theft and all that goes along with any business model.

And to most reading this, I have a very good working personal and business relationship with most of the well respected and well known tuners.........its healthy competition between us all that drives this industry........and with that friendly competition and willingness to help each other and push each other we would not be here doing all we are doing today..........and this is not just about tuning, its about all other supported industries that make all the go-fast parts we all use to make these trucks what they are.
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  #39  
Old 09-14-2017, 08:42 AM
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I do my own tuning so far. When the time comes that I out of my league I would pick from any of the above tuners to take of me. Like Josh said somethings need to be felt and seen, so really I would start with someone that is close to you. Just in case you have one of those problem trucks.


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  #40  
Old 09-14-2017, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMC_2002_Dmax View Post
Growth is part of the process, but it has to be controlled, if its left unbalanced issues are created, as a 1 man shop for 10 years I needed to grow, but I wanted to stay personal and small to not lose that identity, but the market forced me to grow, so I added a person, if I need to add more I will, but the bigger you get the more headaches you get.

And, we all make mistakes, its life, its an inconvenience,........as long as its addressed its all good...........also many people lack patience, and I have lost dealers and re-sellers because they lacked patience, and felt like they might have been mistreated, but they just had a bad day and moved on...........so it is what it is..........again, you cannot please everyone, I gave up trying to be the "WHITE KNIGHT".........you cannot save every "PRINCESS".........some have to be left in the towers for the other "KNIGHTS" to rescue............

Anyways,

When a tuner uses a "Base File", we all do, think of it as a recipe for a cake, the ingredients and cooking temp always bake the same cake, when you tweak the tune or recipe the majority of it stays the same, so when you have tweaked that recipe using the same base file over and over for the same basic builds and changes, and its worked for 5000 trucks, then you get the odd ball doing weird things chances are its not the tune.

The reason I do not use a lot of scripts is because its easier to tweak a tune file already built, tested and sold 1000's of times then re-run a script.

A perfect example I can give, I have a 2012 LML, its been tuned for almost 4 years, when I send the exact tune, literally, the tune I have in my truck to a shop or customer, and they complain of issues and blame the tune I can guarantee you it isn't the tune, its currently running in my truck and its a 2012 LML same as the tune you just asked for, and I can literally flash my truck with the exact tune I sent, and its 100% fine, its not the tune.

So you now become a detective, you start asking lots of questions, you find out it had a CP4 failure, you ask, did you clean and replace everything, including all the lines flushed out, tank dropped and cleaned, fuel cooler replaced, rails and all fuel related components have been replaced, feed and return lines, etc...........and you are told "YES", but you still get blamed for a shitty running truck even though they put a supposedly new CP4 on it and all the required new fuel system parts...........and then you get a charge-back 3 months later...........kinda pisses you off...........especially since its the 1st CP4 failure they worked on !!!

As a tuner, you do blame hard parts or other issues all the time, because when you sell 40,000 of something and go back to those proven tunes over and over and a truck is not right when the previous 5000 were spot on its usually the truck or related to some issue with the truck.

But try to explain it to a customer............or inexperienced shop with a V2 that just got into this industry.


and as Josh stated, a lot of us live tune big builds and go back to those base files, but we cannot hear or see anything in a log or as he stated feel what its doing, so we cannot often times fix it, we also get wrong information about what its doing............so when we can get our hands literally on it we fix them easily if you know what you are doing.

Anyone who does this knows that its not easy, if it were there would be a lot of well known tuners, but its not easy........and its getting more and more cut throat with theft and all that goes along with any business model.

And to most reading this, I have a very good working personal and business relationship with most of the well respected and well known tuners.........its healthy competition between us all that drives this industry........and with that friendly competition and willingness to help each other and push each other we would not be here doing all we are doing today..........and this is not just about tuning, its about all other supported industries that make all the go-fast parts we all use to make these trucks what they are.
What happens if you try another tuner and it corrects the problems from multiple trucks? If a person is spending that much money for quality and customer service they should get it. Not some ***** responses. There is a reason why a lot of shops have a V2 and Order Tunes from well-known tuners. They know exactly they are not capable of doing it. I do agree 100% that it is hard to hire someone that has the knowledge like you do. If you want to take this to PM's I will be more than happy to. But I am definitely willing to pull three logs off three different trucks that you blame hard parts and it end up being your tuning. So do not act like you're perfect and that out of that many trucks nothing goes wrong. Perfect example. My race truck. You can never get rid of the haze. Always look like an lb7 sitting there. Ended up being just the tunning
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  #41  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:32 AM
joelykool joelykool is offline
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After reading this thread, I purchased some tunes this morning from Danville for my 02 duramax with the sac 45 injectors. Tunes run great!! Also, ferm helped me out earlier in the year as a FAVOR regarding tuning for the sac injectors all due to my original tuner not admitting his tunes weren't working for the sac design. His rep is mostly good on the net, I just think it could be due to him not actually live tuning a truck with those inj...IDK? Everything ferm said he dealt with I was seeing with my tunes. I really think it boils down to if they have physically tuned in person your setup or one similar to it. As with my original tuner, I was told it must be my truck...except 2 different tuners later, and both times truck runs good!
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  #42  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:13 AM
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It's a shame the guys looking for tunes in my area are being sold by "dealers" it that's what you would like to call them... The cheapest products possible under the assumption the dealer makes most money off from the tunes.
Hard to explain I guess, but as long as it pulls harder and smokes a little bit, price wins the battle Every time.

Big name guys are locally sold
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  #43  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne-max View Post
What happens if you try another tuner and it corrects the problems from multiple trucks? If a person is spending that much money for quality and customer service they should get it. Not some ***** responses. There is a reason why a lot of shops have a V2 and Order Tunes from well-known tuners. They know exactly they are not capable of doing it. I do agree 100% that it is hard to hire someone that has the knowledge like you do. If you want to take this to PM's I will be more than happy to. But I am definitely willing to pull three logs off three different trucks that you blame hard parts and it end up being your tuning. So do not act like you're perfect and that out of that many trucks nothing goes wrong. Perfect example. My race truck. You can never get rid of the haze. Always look like an lb7 sitting there. Ended up being just the tunning
Nothing is directed at you, sorry you thought is was, so not sure what your response is all about, I simply used your post as its was worthy of quoting..........and again, we all have customers and or trucks that do not work out remotely, its nothing new, I have fixed my share of other tuners tunes that customers were unhappy with for some reason or another as well.........so its all a moot point......................everyone is the greatest if they use them and everyone sucks when they do not use them............it always the case.

Also, I never stated I was perfect, you stated that, I am far from that, but again, every shop/customer will have a tuner that supplied a tune that maybe wasn't perfect, its life......logs often show nothing, as the only way to fix it is to sit in it..........and when you are 1000 miles or so away its tough.

No need for any PM's..........

And again, when I use a tune that is based of a previously well running truck and a its not perfect and it needs some tweaks, then it needs tweaks.

Here is a perfect example, I tuned Mike Graves truck for 3 years, ran mid 9's..........tweaked it a little for Huskers Race Truck, ran mid 9's.

Will that always work........nope, but similar builds do similar things when set up correctly.

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2012 Denali LML....For Sale

2007 GMC "Classic", LBZ, SLE1 ,RC/LB, 4x4
~Powered By "MOONSHINE"

12.525 at 107.07


2002-GMC Sierra 2500HD SLE/CC/SB/4X4~Powered By "MOONSHINE"
12.65 fuel only, 12.00 on some N20
Retired 04/18/2009...................SOLD 01/2014


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