Duramax Diesels Forum Truck of the Week
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:06 AM
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Default Switching Fuel Additive

So I've been a Power Service guy since day one but I can Howes Diesel Treat by the gallon at cost at my shop. How many tanks should I go without any additive at all before it's safe to put a different brand in my tank? Just kinda curious if their are any chemical characteristics between the two brands that may conflict if mixed together


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Old 09-06-2017, 07:31 AM
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I don't have a scientific answer for you, but what i can tell you is in the winter here, i run power service, howes, schaffers and very rarely if i can find it opti lube, no additive-less tanks in between, usually fill at 1/4 tank i do the same with the fuel oil tank for my house, runs #2, i haven't had any issues with my truck or my boiler haha

no idea on the chemical mixtures, i cut my last large cat fuel filter open after 10k miles, didn't see anything gross or out of the ordinary, and the filter for the house looked great
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:53 AM
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Should call up someone like Brent at LDS and ask him?
I'm sure someone who works on injectors all day has a pretty good idea of what to use and not to use
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Old 09-06-2017, 11:58 AM
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Oh come on guys, it's not like switching your dogs food to a different brand. Just start dumping in what you'd like to use.
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Old 09-06-2017, 02:20 PM
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I understand people's concern with how expensive our fuel systems are, but really, I am not convinced an additive is necessary unless you ended up with a cold snap and need to un-gell, or your FPR is failing and you need to help it out (and cheap two-stroke oil works better than any additive I've tried).

When my FPR was failing, I tried every brand I could get, and they barely did anything, if at all. But two stroke oil at 500:1 helped quite a lot. I could tell pretty quick if I forgot to add it to the tank after filling. Later, when my injectors were failing, I again tried every brand under the sun. None did anything, even the two stroke oil.

I've put over 120,000 miles on my truck, and best I can tell, you are better off just focusing on getting quality diesel, and maybe limp a FPR along with some ashless two-stroke oil, but otherwise, leave your fuel alone.

There's a reason GM goes out of their way to recommend you NOT use any additive in their manual. See page 47/48:
Quote:
Caution
Engine damage may occur and the damage would not be covered by the warranty if:
  • [snip]
  • Aftermarket diesel fuel additives, particularly those that contain alcohol or water emulsifiers, are used. Consult your dealer before using a fuel additive.
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:33 PM
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I havent ever noticed anything at the wheel other than man hand cal mpg.

What if a guy just used AC Delco injector cleaner every spring to rinse out the winter fuel? Not saying anything bad about winter fuel but my rig does a lot of idling in the winter. I haven't ever rebuilt a stick before so if an LB7 owner says something about fuel component life I'm all ears to them!


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Old 09-07-2017, 05:32 AM
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I switched additivesall the time without worry. I don't run any anymore unless its been real cold or when I'm out plowing, just to help with water separation. My truck runs noticably smoother without additives which was surprising to me
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:10 AM
cjb2283 cjb2283 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVe3283 View Post
I understand people's concern with how expensive our fuel systems are, but really, I am not convinced an additive is necessary unless you ended up with a cold snap and need to un-gell, or your FPR is failing and you need to help it out (and cheap two-stroke oil works better than any additive I've tried).

When my FPR was failing, I tried every brand I could get, and they barely did anything, if at all. But two stroke oil at 500:1 helped quite a lot. I could tell pretty quick if I forgot to add it to the tank after filling. Later, when my injectors were failing, I again tried every brand under the sun. None did anything, even the two stroke oil.

I've put over 120,000 miles on my truck, and best I can tell, you are better off just focusing on getting quality diesel, and maybe limp a FPR along with some ashless two-stroke oil, but otherwise, leave your fuel alone.

There's a reason GM goes out of their way to recommend you NOT use any additive in their manual. See page 47/48:

Sir, you left out the bullet that was just before that one;
.
Diesel fuel or fuel additives
that are not recommended
are used.

.
Aftermarket diesel fuel
additives, particularly those
that contain alcohol or water
emulsifiers, are used.
Consult your dealer before

using a fuel additive.

Not arguing, just pointing it out. I consider myself still very new to diesel, have owned my first for a little over a year now. But I consider myself an avid Forum follower. Lots of people use additives, me included and there is the thread on which one is best. My question is, not necessarily to you, but why run a bunch of tests on additives to prove which one is the best if they are bad or not really needed? And does GM have a list of recommended additives?
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb2283 View Post
Not arguing, just pointing it out. I consider myself still very new to diesel, have owned my first for a little over a year now. But I consider myself an avid Forum follower. Lots of people use additives, me included and there is the thread on which one is best. My question is, not necessarily to you, but why run a bunch of tests on additives to prove which one is the best if they are bad or not really needed? And does GM have a list of recommended additives?
The first bullet basically says the same thing as the 2nd one; I left it out because I felt it was redundant, not to mislead. If I wanted to mislead, I wouldn't have linked to the manual.

I think most additives don't hurt anything, and as I said in my post, I have run a number of additives in the past. It has been my experience, however, that they don't appear to do anything besides un-gelling of fuel (which is a valid use).

The synthetic tests of additives aren't necessarily directly applicable to how they help our fuel system life. You can increase MPG slightly with an additive (by effectively altering combustion speed/timing), though that effect is lower with a good mileage tune in the truck. In my case, when I calculated the increase in MPG and added in the cost of the additive, there was no cost savings per mile. Consider the fact that the majority of diesel owners don't use an additive and see the same injector life as those who do.

These are the reasons I personally don't use an additive. As for GM's reasons, this is the latest bulletin I could find, from August 2016: 3-06-04-017I
Quote:
Diesel Fuel Additives Are Not Required or Recommended
The use of diesel fuel additives are not required or recommended for the Cruze 2.0L diesel engine or the 6.6L Duramax® Diesel engine under normal conditions.
It goes on to explain that the main concern is with water emulsifiers (most modern diesel additives don't do this), but the key takeaways are an additive is not necessary, and additives can't fix poor quality fuel.

So I will stick with my original advice: run good quality diesel, and don't bother with an additive.
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novak View Post
So I've been a Power Service guy since day one but I can Howes Diesel Treat by the gallon at cost at my shop. How many tanks should I go without any additive at all before it's safe to put a different brand in my tank? Just kinda curious if their are any chemical characteristics between the two brands that may conflict if mixed together
Contact Tom Magaw at Magaw Distributing in Jerome. He's the Schaeffer Oil Distributor for Idaho...

http://www.schaefferoilreps.com/tomm...nfalls-id.html
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoiseRob View Post
Contact Tom Magaw at Magaw Distributing in Jerome. He's the Schaeffer Oil Distributor for Idaho...



http://www.schaefferoilreps.com/tomm...nfalls-id.html


I know them pretty good I get my oil from there!


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4" MBRP TB AXLE DUMP, EFI IDAHO ROB, PPE RAIL PLUG, S&B AIR, PPE TRANS COOLER, FLEECE TRANS LINES, AIRDOGG 165, EDGE CTS, KRYPTONITE STEERING RODS AND KRYPTONITE IDLER, COGNITO STEREING BRACES, COGNITO DIFF MOUNT, BARS TURNED DOWN AND DROP SHACKLES ON REAR, ALL OTHER PM (REROUTES AND DELETES) PAINT PAINT PAINT

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  #12  
Old 09-07-2017, 08:17 AM
cjb2283 cjb2283 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVe3283 View Post
The first bullet basically says the same thing as the 2nd one; I left it out because I felt it was redundant, not to mislead. If I wanted to mislead, I wouldn't have linked to the manual.

I think most additives don't hurt anything, and as I said in my post, I have run a number of additives in the past. It has been my experience, however, that they don't appear to do anything besides un-gelling of fuel (which is a valid use).

The synthetic tests of additives aren't necessarily directly applicable to how they help our fuel system life. You can increase MPG slightly with an additive (by effectively altering combustion speed/timing), though that effect is lower with a good mileage tune in the truck. In my case, when I calculated the increase in MPG and added in the cost of the additive, there was no cost savings per mile. Consider the fact that the majority of diesel owners don't use an additive and see the same injector life as those who do.

These are the reasons I personally don't use an additive. As for GM's reasons, this is the latest bulletin I could find, from August 2016: 3-06-04-017I
It goes on to explain that the main concern is with water emulsifiers (most modern diesel additives don't do this), but the key takeaways are an additive is not necessary, and additives can't fix poor quality fuel.

So I will stick with my original advice: run good quality diesel, and don't bother with an additive.
Good to know. Thank you for that info. I think I am sold. Looks like I may finish out my bottle of Opti-Lube and save a buck by not buying anymore. I did run across the initial bulletin (3-06-04-017) which came out in 2003...they did actually recommend two additives to reduce/eliminate water. But that's old...
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:26 PM
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I'm definitely no expert, but from what I've come to understand is that it depends on which truck you have. It is true that these trucks can run on almost anything, some run trans fluid to clean everything out, but the newer trucks don't really need any additives because they were built to run on the ULSD that comes out of these pumps. the previous LSD trucks "should use" additive to make up for that.

Changing additives won't hurt anything. I actually changed from Standadyne to OptiLube, and it was seamless. Definitely runs better with the OptiLube though.

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Old 09-18-2017, 01:25 AM
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Heck I mix shit up all the time. 2 stroke and Schaffers is what I normaly run, but then when I make a trips up north in the winter I'm mixing in Howes too and Schaffers goes away on the next fill up.

I would stick to commonly used additives. ATF and mom and pop additives can be bad. I ran one that was tested out by a few guys and when the temp got below 60* it caused my truck to start dieseling at idle.

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  #15  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:12 PM
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I used to use Stanadyne and 2-stroke in my LB7 religiously. Now I just buy quality fuel. I try to use Shell fuel, because it's what the truck likes based on what's available.
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