Which CP3 for the LML [Archive] - Duramax Diesels Forum

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NC-smokinlmm
09-23-2014, 08:44 AM
Ok guys I'm seriously considering performing a cp3 swap. I'm on the fense about running a stock pump or something like a sportsman 750. I remember back when floor it was doing stroker pumps but they didn't last for shit. Are the new designed cast pumps from say fleece more reliable or should I just get a new Bosch and roll with it? I want low 600's out of her so I'm not looking for huge power, I was just thinking with the higher flowing piezo injectors more fuel may be necessary or at least beneficial...

Janimal444
09-23-2014, 08:51 AM
I don't have an answer for you, but I'm curious if you are doing this for power or reliability. The cp4s scare the crap out of me, personally.

TeaBagger2006
09-23-2014, 10:05 AM
If I was you I'd do a new stock LBZ pump. Exergy has the best pumps out right now, so I've heard, but for reliability and hp range you're shooting for I'd say new LBZ pump.

gmduramax
09-23-2014, 10:08 AM
Who sells a stock pump, but it's been modified to not restrict fuel over 3200rpm? That's the one id get.

Mile_high
09-23-2014, 10:09 AM
Who sells a stock pump, but it's been modified to not restrict fuel over 3200rpm? That's the one id get.


Exergy sportsman.

PureHybrid
09-23-2014, 11:10 AM
And Fleece, the "cp3k", and I was thinking the Danville modded lbz pumps were the same thing???

plowboy_lbz
09-23-2014, 04:01 PM
Floor-it made of the best pumps out there. I believe he taught exergy how to do it. I heard he is still making them but in a different shop.

mike diesel
09-23-2014, 04:15 PM
I'd say stock lbz/lmm pump if all you want is low 600's. Keeps it as reliable as possible.

dmax711
09-23-2014, 05:51 PM
I'd say stock lbz/lmm pump if all you want is low 600's. Keeps it as reliable as possible.

X2

S Phinney
09-23-2014, 06:38 PM
Floor-it made of the best pumps out there. I believe he taught exergy how to do it. I heard he is still making them but in a different shop.

I highly doubt he did teach them. They do not use modded regulators in any of their pumps like the others do.

andy-stevenson
09-23-2014, 06:45 PM
I was told by the Exergy salesman that either the 10mm or 12mm modded pumps would be as reliable as a stock pump.

quadracer37
09-23-2014, 07:44 PM
We have several customers with 10mm pumps that have logged some good amounts of street mileage, so i wouldn't be worried one bit to run a 10mm single on a street truck.
Remember the 10mm pump is only going to have to run at maybe 75% load to achieve 600hp, while the stock LBZ pump is going to run 95-100% load to achieve your 600hp goal... Something to take into consideration.

Bonestock
09-23-2014, 08:35 PM
I happen to have an Exergy 10mm cp3 for sale. It has 310 miles on it and would come with gear. I paid $2300.00 would like $1850.

JD Dave
09-24-2014, 05:06 AM
I'd take Jason's advice and go with a 10mm.

HeavyDuty204
09-24-2014, 08:46 AM
I went with a stroker from Fleece.

Are the strokers known to whine? At low rpm when throttling to about 30% I get a high pitched whine which I'm attributing to the newly installed CP3 as I never heard the noise before.

coker6303
09-24-2014, 09:14 AM
why would anyone be scared of the cp4? seems like bosch updated the pumps quickly and there are very few failures on newer trucks

dmax711
09-24-2014, 09:18 AM
why would anyone be scared of the cp4? seems like bosch updated the pumps quickly and there are very few failures on newer trucks

I think it's more of the fact that they can't support what a cp3 will h.p wise. That along with the failures that have happened.

coker6303
09-24-2014, 09:20 AM
I think it's more of the fact that they can't support what a cp3 will h.p wise. That along with the failures that have happened.

stock for stock, I thought the hp was very comparable on max effort? maybe not, i haven't really kept up with it as I'm not modding my LML.

HeavyDuty204
09-24-2014, 09:34 AM
No the CP4 can only support 550 rwh and reliability is an issue with them. It's not like they're blowing left and right, just when you're out of warranty people are opting for the better and cheaper solution of replacing with a more robust cp3 in the event the cp4 ever went.

dmax711
09-24-2014, 09:35 AM
stock for stock, I thought the hp was very comparable on max effort? maybe not, i haven't really kept up with it as I'm not modding my LML.

As far as I know 500ish is all the cp4 can produce h.p wise.

coker6303
09-24-2014, 10:26 AM
No the CP4 can only support 550 rwh and reliability is an issue with them. It's not like they're blowing left and right, just when you're out of warranty people are opting for the better and cheaper solution of replacing with a more robust cp3 in the event the cp4 ever went.

As far as I know 500ish is all the cp4 can produce h.p wise.

assuming stock turbo, if so that's all over a max effort tune on a stock cp3/turbo truck. no reason to swap to a stock cp3 for power if you can build that power on a cp4.

I would like to see failures 2014+ which is when the bosch updates took place in the pumps from what I gathered. With my luck, i'll probably be one to lose a cp4 on my 2015!! lol

elliottw
09-24-2014, 11:48 AM
Let me check the repair order on the one I did, believe it was a 14 but might have been a 13

DIESELMAFIAPER.LB7
09-24-2014, 02:10 PM
The cp4 won't live at 500+hp a cp3 will

NC-smokinlmm
09-25-2014, 04:43 AM
Im wanting to swap for both reasons. Reliability and power production, I know the cp4 was redesigned to try and stop the issue with the metering valve but it still worries me. Thanks for all the responses, I'm leaning towards the 10mm stroker pump. If you still have it when im ready I will be pm you Bonestock.

Also I've been told the redesigned pump flows a little more fuel, so it looks as though the newer cp4 can support about 525 to 550 rwhp which is a far cry from what a stock cp3 can do...

coker6303
09-25-2014, 06:11 AM
how is 525-550hp a far cry from what a stock cp3 can do?? I'm cool with the reliability concerns and such, but I don't understand the "cp3 makes more power" answers here.

stock for stock, a max effort tune in either a cp3 or cp4 truck is going to net around 500-535. Some do a little more (wednesday trucks! lol) but that's pretty much the limit. Unless you are comparing a modded cp3 to a cp4 in terms of hp?

I'm not justifying anything, I'm not modding my LML. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the hp argument on a stock tuned truck.

DMAXchris
09-25-2014, 06:46 AM
how is 525-550hp a far cry from what a stock cp3 can do?? I'm cool with the reliability concerns and such, but I don't understand the "cp3 makes more power" answers here.

stock for stock, a max effort tune in either a cp3 or cp4 truck is going to net around 500-535. Some do a little more (wednesday trucks! lol) but that's pretty much the limit. Unless you are comparing a modded cp3 to a cp4 in terms of hp?

I'm not justifying anything, I'm not modding my LML. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the hp argument on a stock tuned truck.

My stock cp3 is supporting 700rwhp and 40% injectors and still holding 24k of pressure. I think you're missing the point Russ. From what I understand, The cp4 can't go above 550ish, no matter what.

duratothemax
09-25-2014, 06:49 AM
Its because the piezo injectors return much less fuel than the older electromechanical solenoid injectors...so much less fuel is "wasted" and bypassed. In other words, the same amount of injection pump on a piezo-injector engine will produce more HP than a solenoid-injector engine.

I think just swapping an LML to a stock CP3 is the equivalent of putting a "10% over" CP3 on a 2001-2010 solenoid-injector dmax.

coker6303
09-25-2014, 06:54 AM
Its because the piezo injectors return much less fuel than the older electromechanical solenoid injectors...so much less fuel is "wasted" and bypassed. In other words, the same amount of injection pump on a piezo-injector engine will produce more HP than a solenoid-injector engine.

I think just swapping an LML to a stock CP3 is the equivalent of putting a "10% over" CP3 on a 2001-2010 solenoid-injector dmax.

Thank you for clarifying that Ben. Makes much more sense than just saying "more HP". :thumb:

NC-smokinlmm
09-26-2014, 04:48 AM
Its because the piezo injectors return much less fuel than the older electromechanical solenoid injectors...so much less fuel is "wasted" and bypassed. In other words, the same amount of injection pump on a piezo-injector engine will produce more HP than a solenoid-injector engine.

I think just swapping an LML to a stock CP3 is the equivalent of putting a "10% over" CP3 on a 2001-2010 solenoid-injector dmax.

Well Ben if thats really case, the modded pump would not be needed to reach my power goal. Which is gonna save me some major coin for the turbo sawp and trans build. Thanks for your input guys. I really do appreciate it...:hug:

duratothemax
09-26-2014, 05:30 AM
Talk to Fleece first, but thats the way I understood it...

coker6303
09-26-2014, 06:30 AM
My stock cp3 is supporting 700rwhp and 40% injectors and still holding 24k of pressure. I think you're missing the point Russ. From what I understand, The cp4 can't go above 550ish, no matter what.

You may be right, I'm probably missing something. I'll just drive my stock LML and shut my hole lol :( ready for the reg cab to be up and running

DMAXchris
09-26-2014, 07:14 AM
You may be right, I'm probably missing something. I'll just drive my stock LML and shut my hole lol :( ready for the reg cab to be up and running

:rofl:

The way I interpreted it was the CP4 cant move the volume of fuel that the CP3 can, but the CP4 works at a higher pressure, making it more efficient.
I give you credit for resisting the itch and keeping it stock, which is probably the hardest thing for a gearhead to do. lol :D

Janimal444
09-26-2014, 08:00 AM
assuming stock turbo, if so that's all over a max effort tune on a stock cp3/turbo truck. no reason to swap to a stock cp3 for power if you can build that power on a cp4.

I would like to see failures 2014+ which is when the bosch updates took place in the pumps from what I gathered. With my luck, i'll probably be one to lose a cp4 on my 2015!! lol

I did not know Bosch had made changes. I'd be interested to see this as well.

x MadMAX DIESEL
09-26-2014, 08:44 AM
:rofl:

The way I interpreted it was the CP4 cant move the volume of fuel that the CP3 can, but the CP4 works at a higher pressure, making it more efficient.
I give you credit for resisting the itch and keeping it stock, which is probably the hardest thing for a gearhead to do. lol :D

How much pressure?

GMC_2002_Dmax
09-26-2014, 09:14 AM
A stock LML PW is around 1100 at 29K psi.

I have a Exergy 100MM3 LML that held over 2500 for PW with twins and held right at 30K psi.

All you need is a 10MM pump, I don't even thing dual Cp3's will be needed for 95% of LML owners.

I already have a built trans in my LML so the next step for me is a Cp3 conversion and I will go with either a Fleece 750 or a Exergy 10MM.

Both should do the job, I have not logged a Fleece 750 but I am sure it will keep up.

;)

Dirtbag
09-26-2014, 09:11 PM
I did the conversion on my LML. Went with the Fleece Cp3K pump and have about 1500 miles on it. So far its been great. Lots more power vs the CP4.

NC-smokinlmm
09-27-2014, 06:48 AM
I did the conversion on my LML. Went with the Fleece Cp3K pump and have about 1500 miles on it. So far its been great. Lots more power vs the CP4.

Who tuned it? And how much more did they tell you they could get out of it with just a CP3 conversion?

TheBac
09-27-2014, 07:36 AM
Who tuned it? And how much more did they tell you they could get out of it with just a CP3 conversion?

"EFI Tunes by Kory Willis" -- right in his sig. ;)

Dirtbag
09-27-2014, 08:03 AM
Yep.. Kory tuned it.. I think he's tuned close to 100 cp3 converted LML's.

DIESELMAFIAPER.LB7
09-27-2014, 08:57 AM
Far as I know fleece and Kory are the only ones currently tuning cp3 conversions maybe Tony is going to be soon as well

GMC_2002_Dmax
09-28-2014, 06:15 AM
Far as I know fleece and Kory are the only ones currently tuning cp3 conversions maybe Tony is going to be soon as well

We have been tuning them since May, the one I spoke of I live tuned.

Its not a problem.

:thumb:

NC-smokinlmm
09-28-2014, 06:21 AM
We have been tuning them since May, the one I spoke of I live tuned.

Its not a problem.

:thumb:

That's good to know Tony. Maybe when you come down this way to visit your folks again you can take a shot at live tuning mine for me.:D

I was told there isn't much left in these trucks with just a CP3 conversion. Turbo is already at its limits as is the stock trans, am I understanding this correctly?

duratothemax
09-29-2014, 06:35 AM
Line pressure box helps out the trans

quadracer37
09-29-2014, 07:19 AM
That's good to know Tony. Maybe when you come down this way to visit your folks again you can take a shot at live tuning mine for me.:D

I was told there isn't much left in these trucks with just a CP3 conversion. Turbo is already at its limits as is the stock trans, am I understanding this correctly?

Stock turbo is done around 550hp. stock trans slips before then, but you can limp them along for quite some time...
We've done a ton of cp3 conversions in house and kits sent out, with 10mm pumps and stock pumps. also done quite a few cp3 over cp3 on the LML, no issues to date. Calibrated Power has also tuned lots of them.

joelc79
10-28-2014, 06:53 AM
Is there any issues with the dual cp3 kits utilizing the stock cp4 still?

quadracer37
10-28-2014, 07:01 AM
Is there any issues with the dual cp3 kits utilizing the stock cp4 still?

nope, sold a ton of them before we started doing the cp4 delete kits. now its about half and half.. but on the earlier model lml your still taking the risk of having the cp4 fail on you..

joelc79
10-29-2014, 06:18 AM
Mine is a 15' so im guessing its the better cp4..

dmax711
10-29-2014, 06:55 AM
nope, sold a ton of them before we started doing the cp4 delete kits. now its about half and half.. but on the earlier model lml your still taking the risk of having the cp4 fail on you..

Have you seen any early model lml's cp4 fail with your cp3 kit over it ?

quadracer37
10-29-2014, 01:07 PM
Have you seen any early model lml's cp4 fail with your cp3 kit over it ?

not yet, no.

NC-smokinlmm
10-29-2014, 07:20 PM
not yet, no.

Is it easier/monitarily equal to twin pump it?

quadracer37
10-29-2014, 09:44 PM
Is it easier/monitarily equal to twin pump it?


As in fuel capacity wise? Yes. The cp3 over cp4 pump set up will support 1000hp. A single 12mm would be close, but still a bit shy of that.
We use exergy Sportsman pumps in our twin kits standard. They are a step above a stock pump and will full fuel to 4500 rpm where a stock pump will flat line at about 3200 rpm.
Most of the cp4 delete kits we do, we'll use either the sportsman pump or a 10mm and if the customer ever wants to build the motor and go extreme hp them we'll put another cp3 over the top of that and have true dual cp3's.
Labor wise, the dual pump cp3/cp4 is a quicker install then the cp4 delete job.

Utahski
11-23-2014, 10:17 AM
Floor-it made of the best pumps out there. I believe he taught exergy how to do it. I heard he is still making them but in a different shop.

My Floorit stroker pump lasted for 3 months and BANG! froze up completely on the Edge dyno. That was Oct. '12. Was promised a replacement and still don't have it, can't even reach him by phone.

x MadMAX DIESEL
11-24-2014, 06:18 PM
My Floorit stroker pump lasted for 3 months and BANG! froze up completely on the Edge dyno. That was Oct. '12. Was promised a replacement and still don't have it, can't even reach him by phone.

My casting starting pouring out fuel in the 1st week I had it. Amazingly my replacement came about 1 week after. When I bought the first I waited about 2 months for it to show

NC-smokinlmm
11-24-2014, 07:43 PM
I'm just going to twin pump it over the cp4. I dont trust the stroker pumps and from what im told there are zero cases of cp4 failure with twin pumps. The trans is getting built in 2 weeks then I will add some fuel and air...:D

x MadMAX DIESEL
11-24-2014, 07:47 PM
Exergy pumps are good.

MarkBroviak
11-25-2014, 06:36 AM
Exergy pumps are the best, period!:thumb:

OregonDMAX
11-25-2014, 07:57 AM
I'm just going to twin pump it over the cp4. I dont trust the stroker pumps and from what im told there are zero cases of cp4 failure with twin pumps. The trans is getting built in 2 weeks then I will add some fuel and air...:D

Failure rate is based on use, I don't know if there are enough cp3/cp4 setups out there yet to really test for dependability based on mileage

Bonestock
11-25-2014, 08:54 AM
I still have the 10mm Exergy pump for sale. Black Friday pricing of $1550. This is a steal for someone who needs a next to new pump. Pm or give me shout or text if interested. 307-431-2482 Thanks, Randy.:thumb:

Utahski
11-25-2014, 09:47 AM
I still have the 10mm Exergy pump for sale. Black Friday pricing of $1550. This is a steal for someone who needs a next to new pump. Pm or give me shout or text if interested. 307-431-2482 Thanks, Randy.:thumb:

He's right, this is a helluva deal. My Exergy (12mm) cost $2300, with core, a couple years ago.

Bonestock
11-25-2014, 09:53 AM
He's right, this is a helluva deal. My Exergy (12mm) cost $2300, with core, a couple years ago.


Whats up Dave? How have you been?

I also have a Fleece Cheetah Billet 63 Charger for sale. $1550 thru this week only.

Bonestock
11-25-2014, 03:06 PM
I also have a LMM CP3 with 33k on it. $500 no core.