LB7: To do head studs or not? [Archive] - Duramax Diesels Forum

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Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 06:37 PM
Well my head gaskets are blown in my 04 lb7, I'm going with merchant automotives head gasket set and getting the heads decked and resealing the injector cups. My question is whether its worth installing head studs or not, I still have a stock turbo and injectors, I just have a built trans, airdog, and Robs tunes and will probably leave it at that because its fun and reliable. I'm considering a HTT 66mm turbo someday because of egts but gonna stay with stock or 30% injectors. What do yall say?

blk smoke lb7
09-10-2011, 06:44 PM
If you have it torn down IMO its a little insureance, and if you go the the htt i would for sure.Stock 1s would hold for a long time but .......i would do the arps

paint94979
09-10-2011, 06:47 PM
yes in your case it would be very wise to do them

TheBac
09-10-2011, 06:48 PM
Might be a good idea in your case.

Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 06:48 PM
I only drive around 15,000 miles a year and don't drag race or pull it. I would wastegate the HTT at 40-45 psi. I just dont wanna skimp and be doing it again in in 30,000 miles.....

paint94979
09-10-2011, 06:49 PM
Do the studs!!! :d

Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 06:49 PM
Btw, I have NO clue why this is under efilive, I clicked on the lb7 section but my phone mustn't have thought so. lol

Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 07:00 PM
On my brothers cummins we just overtorqued the head bolts and its been holding 55 psi of boost and a young driver for 2 years, is that doable or are the bolts TTY? I guess I should man up and do it but I'm a tightwad and just had a accident that wasn't cheap.....

Kat
09-10-2011, 07:04 PM
Btw, I have NO clue why this is under efilive, I clicked on the lb7 section but my phone mustn't have thought so. lol

Fixed it for you :thumb:

blk smoke lb7
09-10-2011, 07:19 PM
"sometimes to need to spend a little in the front to save even more on the end" from 1 tightwad to another.Another thing i learned it no to over tighten either do you know how much cast iron flexs? only tighten to proper specs.....check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cLjdr2GSwU dont mess around get the studs and dont over tighten

Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 07:23 PM
Fixed it for you :thumb:

Awesome, thanks a lot.

Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 07:28 PM
"sometimes to need to spend a little in the front to save even more on the end" from 1 tightwad to another.Another thing i learned it no to over tighten either do you know how much cast iron flexs? only tighten to proper specs.....check this out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cLjdr2GSwU dont mess around get the studs and dont over tighten

Aren't studs overtightening compared to stock? 125 ft lbs is 125 ft lbs..... I've read (the internets) that its not a good idea to do studs on a duramax with out getting the block line bored with a torque plate because it will distort the bores and cause excessive blow-by, any truth to that? That video is nuts!

ripmf666
09-10-2011, 07:30 PM
I would add studs I know were you can get the studs and gasket for a good price.

Sledhead
09-10-2011, 07:36 PM
You can't reuse stock TTYs but you can reuse studs :cool:

blk smoke lb7
09-10-2011, 07:40 PM
I would add stud I know were you can get the studs and gasket for a good price.
LOL Henry can hook you up with both thats for sure and at prices hard to beat from others......... all i can say is call arp and talk to a tech thay can be installed on a new engine or for just doing head gaskets i installed on a 5000 mile motor and had no blow by,if your doing same ft lbs should be the same right? weather studs or gm bolts?

Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 07:46 PM
LOL Henry can hook you up with both thats for sure and at prices hard to beat from others......... all i can say is call arp and talk to a tech thay can be installed on a new engine or for just doing head gaskets i installed on a 5000 mile motor and had no blow by,if your doing same ft lbs should be the same right? weather studs or gm bolts?

Aren't studs torqued to higher ft lbs than stock bolts?

IOWA LLY
09-10-2011, 07:51 PM
Stock bolts are tightened using an angular tightening method. So what the final torque is, is hard to say. Part of the reason head studs hold better is because there are a stronger fastener and don't flex or "stretch" under load. You can't over tighten a softer fastener and achieve the same result....:thumb:

Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 07:52 PM
I would add studs I know were you can get the studs and gasket for a good price.

Can you pm me a price both ways? I had talked to Darryl earlier about a turbo but decided to hold off because I knew the head gaskets were iffy. This truck has had excessive coolant pressure and the radiator hose is always hard after sitting all night ever since I got it but it never looses coolant???? I assume its head gaskets but it got any worse in 15,000 miles so Idk, I was just gonna fix it before winter to be safe. You think I should just run it till they let go or just do the head gaskets? What else could be causing it?

Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 07:55 PM
Stock bolts are tightened using an angular tightening method. So what the final torque is, is hard to say. Part of the reason head studs hold better is because there are a stronger fastener and don't flex or "stretch" under load. You can't over tighten a softer fastener and achieve the same result....:thumb:

Those are normally tty so I bet that's what stock ones are so yea, overtorqueing is definitley a no go. I hate to spend $600 that could be wasted elsewhere but if I have to do head gaskets twice I'm gonna be a tad upset, pulling the trans twice pissed me off enough!

ripmf666
09-10-2011, 07:56 PM
Can you pm me a price both ways? I had talked to Darryl earlier about a turbo but decided to hold off because I knew the head gaskets were iffy. This truck has had excessive coolant pressure and the radiator hose is always hard after sitting all night ever since I got it but it never looses coolant???? I assume its head gaskets but it got any worse in 15,000 miles so Idk, I was just gonna fix it before winter to be safe. You think I should just run it till they let go or just do the head gaskets? What else could be causing it?

Has the injectors been replace at anytime if so a injector cup could of came loose. Do you have any coolant leaking anywere.

ripmf666
09-10-2011, 07:57 PM
Those are normally tty so I bet that's what stock ones are so yea, overtorqueing is definitley a no go. I hate to spend $600 that could be wasted elsewhere but if I have to do head gaskets twice I'm gonna be a tad upset, pulling the trans twice pissed me off enough!

Yes stock head bolts are tty.

Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 08:03 PM
Has the injectors been replace at anytime if so a injector cup could of came loose. Do you have any coolant leaking anywere.

No coolant leaks, and yea, the injectors were replaced by the dealer before I bought it. Any way to diagnose that or just pull them and see?

ripmf666
09-10-2011, 08:12 PM
No coolant leaks, and yea, the injectors were replaced by the dealer before I bought it. Any way to diagnose that or just pull them and see?

How long ago were they done if its been awhile I would rule that out. And coolant in your oil ?

Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 08:23 PM
It's been a couple years, nope no coolant in oil, coolant stays clean too its just always had a lot of cooling system pressure and I'm tired of it and slightly worried.
That's a real good price on the stud kit too, def gonna do studs now.

IOWA LLY
09-10-2011, 08:25 PM
Have you tried a new or different coolant cap? Do you ever have to add coolant?

Bustedknuckles
09-10-2011, 09:16 PM
I replaced the coolant cap with a new GM one and I havnt added coolant since I fixed it up that I can remember, that's what I cant understand, it sat all night last night and at 11:00 today the upper radiator hose was still hard..... Should I replace the thermostats just because?

Bustedknuckles
09-12-2011, 02:35 PM
Well I just ordered head gaskets and studs! It was only $320 more to do studs! Planning to pull it down Wednesday evening, send the heads to the machine shop and put it back together Friday night and Saturday. Gonna be fun.

blk smoke lb7
09-12-2011, 02:38 PM
Sounds great :thumb:

Bustedknuckles
09-12-2011, 03:07 PM
Now the question is, pull the engine or not? It's coming apart tommorrow evening!

blk smoke lb7
09-12-2011, 03:23 PM
Pull the engine to do the heads? do you have lb7 or???? lb7 you dont have to mess with the turbo just unbolt the manifolds leave them bolted to the uppipes,unbolt the y bridge and pull it with the clamshell on it its not hard to do it in the truck,if its lly or lbz thats going to be alittle tougher

Kspen90
09-12-2011, 03:46 PM
Aren't studs overtightening compared to stock? 125 ft lbs is 125 ft lbs..... I've read (the internets) that its not a good idea to do studs on a duramax with out getting the block line bored with a torque plate because it will distort the bores and cause excessive blow-by, any truth to that? That video is nuts!

Head studs do offset the bore of the head from the block slightly and cause the rings to clearance themselves on the "lip" created by the distortion. Having said that, thousands of people have studded their heads (ford, dodge, and gm) without any problems. IMO if you have the means and knowledge to split the tranny and pull the motor then spend the few extra bucks that you thought you were going to spend on the studs and have the bore trued up by a reputable machine shop, im sure Henry can point you in the right direction:thumb: i believe it was trent that had a thread on this topic IIRC
*EDIT* sorry just watched the video

Bustedknuckles
09-12-2011, 04:25 PM
Pull the engine to do the heads? do you have lb7 or???? lb7 you dont have to mess with the turbo just unbolt the manifolds leave them bolted to the uppipes,unbolt the y bridge and pull it with the clamshell on it its not hard to do it in the truck,if its lly or lbz thats going to be alittle tougher

Lb7, the thing is i could have the engine out in 2.5 hours and the just stand thier and work on it instead of bending over for hours. I'm not gonna pull it though, I don't wanna mess with the trans again......

wdino73
09-12-2011, 04:36 PM
In my opinion u can't use your old head bolts and a new set cost about half the price the headstud kit. So for the peace of mind it will bring it's a no brainer to put in headstud...;)

blk smoke lb7
09-12-2011, 04:42 PM
You can have the engine out in 2.5 hours?wow i know im not the fastest thing wrenching but 2.5 isnt that stretching it?

Kspen90
09-12-2011, 04:46 PM
You can have the engine out in 2.5 hours?wow i know im not the fastest thing wrenching but 2.5 isnt that stretching it?

I was thinking the same thing....

Bustedknuckles
09-12-2011, 05:11 PM
You can have the engine out in 2.5 hours?wow i know im not the fastest thing wrenching but 2.5 isnt that stretching it?

ASE certified master tech here, do this sh!t all day every day. Had the trans out in 3/4s of an hour...... Actually I'm gonna have a buddy who owns his own shop helping me and my brother and another buddy are gonna be there to pass wrenches and do the easy stuff. LOL Trent Nell can do it by himself in 2.5 fwiw.

JD Dave
09-12-2011, 05:23 PM
ASE certified master tech here, do this sh!t all day every day. Had the trans out in 3/4s of an hour...... Actually I'm gonna have a buddy who owns his own shop helping me and my brother and another buddy are gonna be there to pass wrenches and do the easy stuff. LOL Trent Nell can do it by himself in 2.5 fwiw.

A race truck and a DD are little different to work on though. Good for you if you can do it in 2.5 hrs.

blk smoke lb7
09-12-2011, 05:35 PM
yeah my hats off to you brother:thumb:

Bustedknuckles
09-12-2011, 05:35 PM
A race truck and a DD are little different to work on though. Good for you if you can do it in 2.5 hrs.

He was saying on any truck. Now I'm tempted to try it just to see if it can be done lol. But I agree, that does seem too fast for an amateur.

Bustedknuckles
09-12-2011, 05:44 PM
duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22037
Heres the thread were guys are talking about engine removal time btw.

Bustedknuckles
09-12-2011, 07:35 PM
I figure this is as good a place to ask as any as it seems yall have real world experience, which is more than you can say for most forums. Im trying to plan my evening tomorrow, about how long does it take to pull the heads on a lb7?? Thanks

wdino73
09-12-2011, 07:44 PM
Well, I may not be as fast as some of the other guys, but once I lift the hood I can have the heads on the bench in 7hrs..:D

Bustedknuckles
09-12-2011, 08:04 PM
^ Ok, thanks. It's gonna be a late night......

TheBac
09-12-2011, 08:28 PM
Just figure an afternoon to pull them, working straight thru without goofing off. If you've already done LB7 injectors, its not much past that to get the heads off.

Bustedknuckles
09-13-2011, 04:28 AM
Just figure an afternoon to pull them, working straight thru without goofing off. If you've already done LB7 injectors, its not much past that to get the heads off.

I've never done injectors and unfortunatly I need my truck so I'm gonna pull the heads tonight and send them to the machine shop and put it back together Friday night and Saturday if everything works as planned, which it never does. lol

blk smoke lb7
09-13-2011, 05:38 AM
Let us know if you get a chance how long it took you....Honestly:thumb:

Bustedknuckles
09-13-2011, 05:45 AM
Will do man! I'm not pulling the engine btw.

Bustedknuckles
09-13-2011, 04:55 PM
Holy mother there's a lot of stuff in the road, now back to work. :woott:

Bustedknuckles
09-13-2011, 08:28 PM
Drivers side head off in 4 hours and 3 bolts left in passenger side! Probably could do it in less but my buddy that has done them before couldn't come. I want to do a turbo now because its so easy, price on a 66 please if I can get one buy Saturday. Shipped to 21783.

Bustedknuckles
09-13-2011, 09:16 PM
All the pistons on the drivers side look like this, coolant right?
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx49/301goosehunter/IMAG0169.jpg

blk smoke lb7
09-14-2011, 04:59 AM
Hard to see,Are you talking about the lepord spoting? Thats suposed to be there.

4 hours is good but if you only had 3 bolts left in the passengetr side why didnt ya pull that 1 also?

dmax404
09-14-2011, 05:18 AM
Hard to see,Are you talking about the lepord spoting? Thats suposed to be there.

4 hours is good but if you only had 3 bolts left in the passengetr side why didnt ya pull that 1 also?

They were the 3 bolts holding the passenger side manifold to the up-pipe. Maybe that would explain lol

blk smoke lb7
09-14-2011, 05:22 AM
Are you talking about that white blotch or is that flash?

blk smoke lb7
09-14-2011, 05:23 AM
i dont even take those bolts out the uppipe will let the manifold flex out of the way so you can pull the head.

dmax404
09-14-2011, 05:28 AM
i dont even take those bolts out the uppipe will let the manifold flex out of the way so you can pull the head.

Idk we tried it with the manifold nuts off and couldnt get it. The up-pipe bolts were easy once we figured out how get the hidden one out.
The pistons all looked good to me.....

Bustedknuckles
09-14-2011, 05:34 AM
i dont even take those bolts out the uppipe will let the manifold flex out of the way so you can pull the head.

I tried that but there are studs in the head and you cant pull the manifold back far enough, it sucked cause those bolts are a b!tch.. Yea I'm talking about the white splotch, its like the carbon was cleaned off at that spot on most of the pistons in the drivers side.

Bustedknuckles
09-14-2011, 03:06 PM
All the pistons on the drivers side look like this, coolant right?
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx49/301goosehunter/IMAG0169.jpg

Bump for opinions.

blk smoke lb7
09-14-2011, 03:43 PM
That would be my guess also without being there

TheBac
09-14-2011, 05:38 PM
It probably is from the coolant, but cant say for sure. Are the spots all in the same places in the bottom of the cylinders? How long had the truck been sitting before you got to the repair?

Bustedknuckles
09-14-2011, 06:17 PM
It probably is from the coolant, but cant say for sure. Are the spots all in the same places in the bottom of the cylinders? How long had the truck been sitting before you got to the repair?

No time at all really, I ordered the parts yesterday afternoon and pulled the heads that evening and I drove it every day so its not like it sat a week and puddled. Come to think of it I bet its just coolant the leaked in when I lifted the head off. What has me a little worried is that the head gaskets look fine, dropped the heads off at the machine shop today so I guess we'll see....

Bustedknuckles
09-14-2011, 06:40 PM
I just gotta pimp Alligator Performance a little, I called them yesterday at 5pm and ordered my parts, just got home and the head studs are already here!!!!!

blk smoke lb7
09-14-2011, 06:45 PM
Are they pulling the injector cups and replaceing the seals i hope,also theres 2 types of red loctite make sure they use the high temp stuff its good to 450 or 475 and its like a thicker gel not like the super runny regular red

Bustedknuckles
09-14-2011, 07:20 PM
Are they pulling the injector cups and replaceing the seals i hope,also theres 2 types of red loctite make sure they use the high temp stuff its good to 450 or 475 and its like a thicker gel not like the super runny regular red

Yea, they are decking the heads, pressure testing them and resealing the cups for $270. I guess that's a fair price? He said he's done quite a few if these heads and said they take special sealant on the cups so I figure he knows what he's doing. Btw, thanks for all the advice and thanks everyone for talking me into studs, I would be kicking myself so hard right now if I wasn't doing them!

mamu
09-14-2011, 07:43 PM
got any pictures of this undertaking??

Bustedknuckles
09-14-2011, 08:08 PM
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx49/301goosehunter/IMAG0159-1.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx49/301goosehunter/IMAG0166-1.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx49/301goosehunter/IMAG0173-1.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx49/301goosehunter/IMAG0174.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx49/301goosehunter/IMAG0172.jpg
These aren't in order but you get the idea.

TheBac
09-14-2011, 08:13 PM
All that looks so eerily familiar. :rofl:

So is that you in the pass side wheel well?

Bustedknuckles
09-14-2011, 08:17 PM
All that looks so eerily familiar. :rofl:

So is that you in the pass side wheel well?

No, its my buddy that was posting earlier, I'm even younger, just turned 20 fwiw.

TheBac
09-14-2011, 08:23 PM
You have gumption for someone so young. :thumb: It'll serve you well. Hope everything goes as planned on the install.

Bustedknuckles
09-14-2011, 08:27 PM
You have gumption for someone so young. :thumb: It'll serve you well. Hope everything goes as planned on the install.

Thanks man! It's been all good so far except for there is no sign of a leak in the gaskets. Hopefully I don't need a head because I want it running by Saturday evening.

TheBac
09-14-2011, 08:59 PM
The gaskets sometimes wont have an obvious leak. You really have to look close.
When I took my heads to Eric and brought the gaskets with me, he pointed out some leaks that I couldnt see. The gaskets hadnt officially "blown" yet...just meant the heads were lifting a bit.

Bustedknuckles
09-15-2011, 07:11 PM
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx49/301goosehunter/IMAG0175.jpg

http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx49/301goosehunter/IMAG0176.jpg

I must have been a good boy, Christmas in September!
Heads will be done tommorrow and its going back together tomorrow night, I think I forsee a late night.....

Sledhead
09-15-2011, 09:15 PM
This is great, I spent most of a winter doing this job :rofl:

Remember the gaskets are LH and RH :hug:

Great job so far :thumb:

wdino73
09-16-2011, 05:36 AM
I like shiny new parts...:woott:

Bustedknuckles
09-16-2011, 10:59 AM
Its going back together tonight, do I need to do a heat cycle and retorque on the studs?

fctry286
09-16-2011, 11:06 AM
No you do not need to heat cycle and re-torque. just follow the torque sequence tighten to specs and you will be fine.

BlkMax
09-16-2011, 11:10 AM
Its going back together tonight, do I need to do a heat cycle and retorque on the studs?
ARP sends instructions with the studs. Follow those...there is a procedure.

Bustedknuckles
09-16-2011, 12:18 PM
They don't say anything about a retorque but a guy at alligator performance said I needed to, that's why I asked, I thought not!

Bustedknuckles
09-16-2011, 03:56 PM
This is not good..... the rear piston on the passenger side is all pitted up.
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx49/301goosehunter/IMAG0180-1.jpg

What do I do now?

Bustedknuckles
09-16-2011, 04:30 PM
Should i pull the engine and replace it or slap it back together and cross my fingers?

blk smoke lb7
09-16-2011, 05:49 PM
Its ok i had 1 like that also not a big deal,run it.also i was told by a few people that after you finish torquing the studs to let them sit 3 to 5 hours and go back to do 1 final check in order

Bustedknuckles
09-17-2011, 03:29 AM
I fired it up this morning at 6 after an all night wrench fest! So far so good.....

Sledhead
09-17-2011, 06:57 PM
Well done! Sleep when you're dead :D

Bustedknuckles
09-17-2011, 07:07 PM
Well done! Sleep when you're dead :D

:coolspot: Yep, slept for 3 hours and then went and played tennis for a couple hours, its nice being 20. lol. Sadly I'm pretty sure I bent a valve when setting lash because pushrod wasn't in place and it got tight turning it over, it had a tick that I figured was an exhaust leak but after driving it ~30 miles it seems to be popping slightly through the intake so I got a buddy to tow me home. I'm going to diagnose it for sure but I plan in having to take the passenger head off again. This time I'm putting on a s366 from EPR! Can't wait.

Jacy_dzlguy
09-17-2011, 07:34 PM
Wow sounds like a lot of work! Let us know what youy think of the turbo! :thumb:

Bustedknuckles
09-17-2011, 08:11 PM
Will do, and yea it is a LOT of hard work. Oh well Gotta pay to play and and I like playing. :cool:

Bustedknuckles
09-19-2011, 05:49 AM
Does anyone know if I can reuse my head gasket? It only has like 30 minutes if run time on it.

rcr1978
09-19-2011, 05:55 AM
Nope, well you can but but it's a step in the direction on doing them again real soon :angel:

whitetrash21
01-14-2012, 11:41 PM
Head studs do offset the bore of the head from the block slightly and cause the rings to clearance themselves on the "lip" created by the distortion. Having said that, thousands of people have studded their heads (ford, dodge, and gm) without any problems. IMO if you have the means and knowledge to split the tranny and pull the motor then spend the few extra bucks that you thought you were going to spend on the studs and have the bore trued up by a reputable machine shop, im sure Henry can point you in the right direction:thumb: i believe it was trent that had a thread on this topic IIRC
*EDIT* sorry just watched the video

Trying to follow this logic. I'm assuming this is the reason for using a torque plate?? How do headstuds offset the bore???

Bustedknuckles
01-15-2012, 05:44 AM
I've heard the extra torque puts the bore out of round and yes, that's the reason for a torque plate when machining the bores.