Engine

[ecc_33]

My first question....What kind of power do you guys and gals think the gt4088 will put out with dual fuelers

2nd question. How long do you think the engine would last. I Would just be using the truck for pulling only.I know people like tomac have ran for a long time with a combo similar. But i think those were freak engines that they had

3rd question. If i had a extra block for my truck what would you get to build it on a budget sort of speak

Rods, what brand? there saying now the Crowers are very inconsistent?

lower the compression on the pistons to what? Should i have someone like EEP do this
Bigger injectors? I would probably go with Don M's

stock cam and stock heads
head and main studs. But what brand ARP?
Just some questions.
All opinions and awnsers are welcome:hug:

[ecc_33]

Is the gt4088 pedistal the same as the gt42....that would be nice if you could swap them out if you ever wanted to go bigger

[Kat]

Is the gt4088 pedistal the same as the gt42....that would be nice if you could swap them out if you ever wanted to go bigger

The pedistal is the same.

That one I can answer.

We ran the 4088 with dual fuelers for a while. We shortend the rods with gt42. It lasted one pass :eek: Before it started blowing white smoke.

Edit- We are using ARP studs in this engine and they are also going in backup engine.

[dieselson]

My first question....What kind of power do you guys and gals think the gt4088 will put out with dual fuelers

We Got 618 RWHP

2nd question. How long do you think the engine would last. I Would just be using the truck for pulling only.I know people like tomac have ran for a long time with a combo similar. But i think those were freak engines that they had

Our has lasted for 8 months and 40 quarter mile passes so far

3rd question. If i had a extra block for my truck what would you get to build it on a budget sort of speak

Stage 1 heads, a comp cam, carrillo Rods, LB7 pistons cut, coated and de lipped

Rods, what brand? there saying now the Crowers are very inconsistent?

Carrillo

lower the compression on the pistons to what? Should i have someone like EEP do this
Bigger injectors? I would probably go with Don M's

Pistons to 15.5:1 for a mild build or 15:1 for more extreme, na dde lip the bowl, and coat it

stock cam and stock heads
head and main studs. But what brand ARP? ARP
Just some questions.
All opinions and awnsers are welcome:hug:

My answers are in red

[ecc_33]

thanks for the awnsers

Dieselson do you guys de tune the truck or leave it all the time with the big tune loaded. How many miles on the engine?
8 months and over 40 passes is pretty damn good!

[ecc_33]

iirc didnt pat put down like 674 with the 4088 and dual fuelers+ EFI Live?

[JOHNBOY]

My first question....What kind of power do you guys and gals think the gt4088 will put out with dual fuelers I could easily you could get beleive over 600hp

2nd question. How long do you think the engine would last. I Would just be using the truck for pulling only.I know people like tomac have ran for a long time with a combo similar. But i think those were freak engines that they had

Who knows? If you want it to last I would go the turbo and leave it just on pump.

3rd question. If i had a extra block for my truck what would you get to build it on a budget sort of speak

Rods, what brand? there saying now the Crowers are very inconsistent?

Talk to Guy for a straight answer on Crowers. I have them they are fine. If had to do it again I would buy Carrillos. The best money you can spend is in the bottomend. Do not skimp there. ARP just released a Main stud side kit for the Dmax. Guy has them at good price. My set just showed up. They cost less that the just stud kit I bought 3 months ago!:eek:

lower the compression on the pistons to what? Should i have someone like EEP do this
Bigger injectors? I would probably go with Don M's
Depends on several things. First off use LB7/ LLY pistons. Removing the lip will get you to around 16.5 : 1 a by itself. Cam choice has alot due with your pistons. If you run a cam bigger than stock I reccomend pist clearencing. With what Fingers discovered in the valve train it finally explains why people are having valve to piston issues even with a .08 clearcence. Hopfully the fix I have in mind works. Then we ca run less clearence safely. I am at 15 : 1 with lip removed. .015 faced of the top, A .125 raduis from the top of the piston to the bowl, and the spot faces need to clear my cam. Again this is with the thin "A" gasket. EEP can do it and has, Guy at Socal can, I can, any Good machine shop should be able to. I want DonM fusion 3s I talked to Doug Smith the owner of PDW. He sells the and is a vendor on CompD. Really nice guy.

stock cam and stock heads
head and main studs. But what brand ARP?
Just some questions.

ARP!
All opinions and awnsers are welcome:hug:


There is my $.02. Well more like a nickel.

[ecc_33]

thanks guys and gals

[Diesel Pilot]

3rd question. If i had a extra block for my truck what would you get to build it on a budget sort of speak


;) IF!

I nominate you to go pick it up this week if I can get in contact with the dude first.

[dieselson]

thanks for the awnsers

Dieselson do you guys de tune the truck or leave it all the time with the big tune loaded. How many miles on the engine?
8 months and over 40 passes is pretty damn good!

Pretty much big tune all the time, the occasion de-tuning to tow or for economy, we like to smoke people out.

[super diesel]

Is the gt4088 pedistal the same as the gt42....that would be nice if you could swap them out if you ever wanted to go bigger

You just need the spacer block to raise it if I'm not mistaken Eric. I don't know about the output cone though (the cone that goes on the output side of the charger).

I would get the core and start building before you do anything else man.

I run the carrillos too.

Nothing but ARPs every where possible (including the valve train and injector hold downs).

Oh yea! Balance the crank with the new components and have the mains line bored with the new studs.

REPLACE CRAP VALVE SPRINGS WITH GOOD STUFF FROM GUY, and only run emissions friendly cam if absolutely necessary ;).

[ecc_33]

Thanks Mr. Oaks. I appriciate all the responses

[TurboBeagleBuggy]

;) IF!

I nominate you to go pick it up this week if I can get in contact with the dude first.

So, did you buy the 02 with the spun bearing or the 03? :angel:

[Diesel Pilot]

So, did you buy the 02 with the spun bearing or the 03? :angel:

;) 02 for sure and maybe the other if I can talk him out of the other sale. I drove right past where they were on Friday but I didn't have any room in my truck for more stuff. My bed was full of 35" H2 wheels/tires. (Thanks Steve)

[TurboBeagleBuggy]

Well, I cost you a little bit of money then Sorry :D

[Diesel Pilot]

Actually, I messed it up for eveyone with about 5 minutes to go I hit the wrong button and took it up to 600 from 300.:(

I talked to the guy that was selling them last night and he is kicking himself for letting them go so cheap.

[ecc_33]

This is what im thinking for next year!

shave the lip off the pistons, compression around 16/1?

Rods for sure
gt4088 turbo
dual cp3's
balancing the engine
keying the crank and cam
do you guys think that will hold and be fairly reliable considering the pistons dont crack? It wont be a daily driver just a sled puller with very few 1/4 mile passes

Do you think Main studs are a priority?

keep in mind im trying to build on a budget. If anyone dont think this will hold i will do more. I would love to do a full tilt engine but thats just not happening for awhile!

[super diesel]

Main studs when going serious is a must at min (my belief). The true cost is alot more than most think and adds big time to what the total is with the components cost because of all the other stuff involved. Now if it breaks right after the true build? When you get to the point where your building to stay competitive it starts getting realy expensive very quickly and this is a fact of life that you must prepare yourself for when entering that world. No short cuts available. Were doing a video of the build I'm doing now with still pic with credits to a short video when compleated. It will be interesting to say the least. This will be totaly backed up by a Mike L. & S.C. trans and will continue to evolve with new things that work as they come out (this has been this trucks weakest point in the past with the old inferior components it use to run).

[ripmf666]

since the gt4088 and gt4094 are the same price should just get the 94

[ecc_33]

but if i get the 94 then i cant run the street class......
with the gt 4088 and some good dyno time tuning i should be running VERY well in the street class:)

[JOHNBOY]

If you going to spend $2700+ on rods and $3000+ on a turbo it is foolish IMHO to not spend $300 on the main studs and side bolts.;) FYI Main studs require the block to be line honed.

[ecc_33]

i agree John i will also do main studs.

[JOHNBOY]

I thought about not running them myself. These things cost crazy money to build. I trying to do it on a budget also. Money spent on a strong bottomend is some of the best money you can spend.

[02freighttrain]

I agree on the main studs as well. Can't hurt anything......The bottom end on these motors are very strong (excluding the rods). Anyhow the addition of studs can't hurt, but at this point, have there been any failures related to main cap shifting, main bearing failure, crankshaft failure? Not to say it's not necessary, just was curious if there is any evidence, that this mod really helps with longivity and considering it's a minimal expense in the big picture.
Bottomline. What evidence exist that Mains Studs are necessary at power levels below 800 hp? Just trying to learn something.

[super diesel]

Usually when you learn there needed, it's to late. Think of it as a P.M. thing. Sort of like the HD push rods, injector hold downs, HD valve train bolts....so on and so forth. If there is a point where they fail, I want to take as many things out of the equation as possible. Like I said before. Don't forget to change out the cheapo GM valve springs with some good stuff too. The stockers are crap. Motor building 101. Truck looks good there Freighttrain. Best of luck to you Eric and everone else on your adventures.

[JOHNBOY]

Usually when you learn there needed, it's to late.

Amen!

[ripmf666]

but if i get the 94 then i cant run the street class......
with the gt 4088 and some good dyno time tuning i should be running VERY well in the street class:)


Not sure were you pull but here any turbo change and your in the mod street class must me oem turbo if you want to pull street and no ball bearing turbos, also no dual cp3's

[JOHNBOY]

He wants to not play nice in a 2.5 turbo class.;)

GT4088 Compressor inducer 2.5

GT4094 Compressor inducer 2.669

[ripmf666]

thought someone said the 94 was a 2.88 something

[SmokeShow]

thought someone said the 94 was a 2.88 something

I believe that is more in line with the measurement on the GT42, not the 40s.

[ecc_33]

Not sure were you pull but here any turbo change and your in the mod street class must me oem turbo if you want to pull street and no ball bearing turbos, also no dual cp3's

See i CAN run dual cp3's and a 2.55 charger or smaller. I can also run water/meth injection. Like johnboy said i am done playing around.
Its time to serve a very tall glass of STFU and try to dominate this class:lildevil::wup:

[dieselson]

The GT4088R actually is better than the GT4094R in ways. It tows better, it doesn't lag very much, and it doesn't surge, and in some situations, it makes more power.

[ecc_33]

So this engine that im getting i guess has a spun cam bearing? i dont know for sure at this point but what usually causes this? Lack of oil pressure?
Can you get bigger cam bearings for the cam if i have to hone or bore that part out?

I also talked to OHIO Crankshaft today and they said 500-600 dollars to balance,Line bore the mains, and make sure the rods clear the wieghts on the crank. Does that sound like a good deal. Johnboy were are you getting most of your work done if you dont mind me asking
Chuck from Ohio Crankshaft said he just got done doing 2 duramax engines. One is from wilmington and will be putting out over 90 pounds of boost! He said they were using ross pistons. He also told me to call R&R racing products from Illinois? and said that guy can make me the same rods im going to buy for about 1500$

[TurboBeagleBuggy]

He also told me to call R&R racing products from Illinois? and said that guy can make me the same rods im going to buy for about 1500$

I think R&R is who is now making the rods for TTS???

[Stingpuller]

If they are selling the rods for that let me know and i'll buy a set. How much are they getting for the ross pistons?

[ecc_33]

Jeff im not sure. While im working very hard tomorrow :D i will be making some phone calls and getting more info for us to share.

Im hoping for saturday morning to have more info

[Stingpuller]

Thanks Eric, By the way Ohio Crankshaft is a very good company to deal with. I know the guy building the D-Max that they just balanced. I have bought many crankshafts and rods from them very good people and they will be strait with you.

[02freighttrain]

If they are selling the rods for that let me know and i'll buy a set. How much are they getting for the ross pistons? Sorry to butt in, but If I were going to buy a set of Ross pistons, I'd get them from Trippin and let him mod them for you. He's way ahead of the curve on a lot of stuff. I spent a lot of time talking to him in person at Merchant's.
He's a good person to have in your court on such a critical decision. I have always been amazed by his knowledge and practical approach to modding the D'max.


That should get me a good discount on my next purchase.:D

[JOHNBOY]

So this engine that im getting i guess has a spun cam bearing? i dont know for sure at this point but what usually causes this? Lack of oil pressure?
Can you get bigger cam bearings for the cam if i have to hone or bore that part out?

I also talked to OHIO Crankshaft today and they said 500-600 dollars to balance,Line bore the mains, and make sure the rods clear the wieghts on the crank. Does that sound like a good deal. Johnboy were are you getting most of your work done if you dont mind me asking
Chuck from Ohio Crankshaft said he just got done doing 2 duramax engines. One is from wilmington and will be putting out over 90 pounds of boost! He said they were using ross pistons. He also told me to call R&R racing products from Illinois? and said that guy can make me the same rods im going to buy for about 1500$

500- 600 sounds good to me. I had mine done at Hutter Racing Engines. I have a buddy there that owed me some favors.

R&R makes TTS rods. Go to the piston thread and read my post about the Ross pistons. The Ross appears to have issues also. Please not that is Team Salad only info. Guy should be in touch with them to get a better idea what is happening with them. I hold off on buying Ross till some stuff gets sorted out.

[bullfrogjohnson]

tell me how that works out. TTS sell R&R rods for 2750 and i can get the same rods for 1500 bucks, WTF? i wonder if they have the same quality control?

Johnboy. whats up with all the discusion on crower rods, these are what i was going to do, are these rod length problems happening alot or just a few cases (i.e. maxfarmer)?

[JOHNBOY]

Johnboy. whats up with all the discusion on crower rods, these are what i was going to do, are these rod length problems happening alot or just a few cases (i.e. maxfarmer)?

I can not really say. I have Crowers and they are right on. I only have one set so who knows. Trippin would be a better person to ask as he has handled more than just 8 like me. I have had a chance to look at a TTS (i.e. R&R) rods. They looked looked nice. But looks are not everything. Crower has been making rods for a long time. They have a great name for a reason.

That price of $1500 is awesome if true. $2700 is out of hand IMHO. Crower and R&R machine these from a billet (ie. bar) . The cost should not be that high to do that. Carrillo has invested in the tooling to forge blanks that takes money and lots of it and Carrillo rods with ARP bolts are only $300 more? :confused:

[bullfrogjohnson]

say i am going to do a similar build but with a HTT, i am not wanting to run dual cp3's but am going to run SD's modded pressure regulator

i would love to run big injectors, like don m fusion 2, but at what size can the stock cp3 not keep up at?

[duratothemax]

If I wanted to stick with I-beams, are the R&R's the best choice? I cant see spending the extra $$ for the H beam carillo's when theres not much to prove they are better...

My heads are going to stay stock. No money to do anything performance oriented with them. But if I were to do ONE SINGLE thing to the heads, it should be Trippin's valve springs?? Key the cam, maybe talk to guy about how much a mild cam would cost. Pistons...maybe just shave the lip off some LB7's...I dont need anything lower than 16:1....Ill be sticking with the HTT. Maybe main studs if I have $ left over, but IMO I havent heard of enough failures to warrant them. Pat did 750rwhp with the HTT and all stock engine...I would like to have that and run fast in the 1/4 mile but WITH reliability. Mind you 95% of my daily driving and towing would be with a small tune. I just want to be able to run 700rwhp whenever I want to without worrying...

What im thinking of.

rods
head studs
key the cam and crank
valve springs
cut stock pistons
stock everything else

Thats going to be what Im basing my build around. If I have any money left over after thats done, maybe Ill look into a cam, probably not tho.

[sweetdiesel]

thats what me is thinking to

[JOHNBOY]

If I wanted to stick with I-beams, are the R&R's the best choice? I cant see spending the extra $$ for the H beam carillo's when theres not much to prove they are better...

You missing the the real advantage of the Carrillo rod. It is Forged vs. Billet. The "I" beam design for this application maybe slightly better than "H" beam. But that is not the whole story. The real advantage is better grain structure of the forged design. A billet rod the way it is made the grain flow does not flow the shape of the rod. The oreintation of the billet when machined controls that. The forging process forms the grain stucture to the shape of the part. I will use the big end as a example. Think of the crank pin hole as like being a knot hole in a board of wood. The grain flows around the knot hole. Now drill a hole in that board. The grain does not run around it. It runs right into it. From the which hole in the board would you most easily start a split? The drilled hole of coarse. Because the spilt can follow the grain flow much easier. Now I am not saying that the billets are not up to the job. They are! That is proven. I have Crowers from Trippin myself. The "I" beam vs. "H" beam debate is really not the reason to choose one over the other IMHO. If you want the strongest rod possible and are not concerned about the added weight get the Carrillos. If your worried about weight or just thrifty the R&Rs or the Crowers would be the way to go.



My heads are going to stay stock. No money to do anything performance oriented with them. But if I were to do ONE SINGLE thing to the heads, it should be Trippin's valve springs?? Key the cam, maybe talk to guy about how much a mild cam would cost. Pistons...maybe just shave the lip off some LB7's...I dont need anything lower than 16:1....Ill be sticking with the HTT. Maybe main studs if I have $ left over, but IMO I havent heard of enough failures to warrant them. Pat did 750rwhp with the HTT and all stock engine...I would like to have that and run fast in the 1/4 mile but WITH reliability. Mind you 95% of my daily driving and towing would be with a small tune. I just want to be able to run 700rwhp whenever I want to without worrying...

What im thinking of.

rods
head studs
key the cam and crank
valve springs
cut stock pistons
pushrods
Main stud and bolt kit
stock everything else

Thats going to be what Im basing my build around. If I have any money left over after thats done, maybe Ill look into a cam, probably not tho.


Ben

That is what I considered a great street build. I pefer the HTT for its wastegate. I would also go with the Stainless Steel exhaust housing because of it higher flow wastegate. It would be better able to keep the turbo on the map even with to CP3s pushing it at high rpm.

[ecc_33]

Talked to the guy at R&R today....They are making the TTS rods and they are also 2750$:( he said Steve has all of them. I told him i didnt care for Steve that much and he started laughing? Said im not the first person to tell him that :).....He said you dont even have to balance or machine anything to put R&R's in the block....He said they are very very close to the stock wieght of a stock rod! he also said if you put all three side by side, carrillo,R&R,Crower, you would like the R&R's just by looking at them visually.
He also said some rods that he makes are sent to crower and so forth with just other peoples names on them like TTS.....The guy was very nice and straight forward with me on anything
Heres the number for your pleasure:) 1-815-465-6741

He also told me hes working on input and output shafts for steve and some kind of clutch hub assembly for the trannies? Maybe the planetary gears? or C# clutch drum

[bullfrogjohnson]

say i am going to do a similar build but with a HTT, i am not wanting to run dual cp3's but am going to run SD's modded pressure regulator

i would love to run big injectors, like don m fusion 2, but at what size can the stock cp3 not keep up at?


bump

[Diesel Pilot]

I can't hang around here anymore. This performance diesel stuff is crazy expensive.

Now, where did I put that '68 Barracuda I forgot about 5 years ago. :(

[02freighttrain]

I can't hang around here anymore. This performance diesel stuff is crazy expensive.

Now, where did I put that '68 Barracuda I forgot about 5 years ago. :(Hope that wasn't one of the 50 stick shift or 51 automatic Hemi cars they made with Hurst for SS racing. Those are pricey, but if you get one can I drive it:D?

[JOHNBOY]

Working on my engine I have to work around my 66 Nova SS roller in the other bay. I have thought to myself a bunch of times how far that would be if I could have left tow truck alone.

[ecc_33]

Hope that wasn't one of the 50 stick shift or 51 automatic Hemi cars they made with Hurst for SS racing. Those are pricey, but if you get one can I drive it:D?


nope its just a baby 340 car with a slipomatic in her:D

very pretty car though

[ecc_33]

bullfrog you probly will gain alittle with the bigger sticks but you will have to back the fuel shot down for the gain in the injectors....you will have to fine tune it till you substain about 20,000psi of rail pressure. The best way to tune that would be on a dyno

[JOHNBOY]

Eric

I got a hold of my buddy at Hutter's today. He said going price $150 for line hone and $280 for balance job if no heavy metal is needed. Which with the R&Rs or Crower's it should not be.

[duratothemax]

how much $ are we looking at for pushrods and valve springs?

How necessary are pushrods? I have my rev limiter set to 3850 and have no desire to set it higher than that even after the build. Pushrods are really necessary?

[bullfrogjohnson]

how much $ are we looking at for pushrods and valve springs?

How necessary are pushrods? I have my rev limiter set to 3850 and have no desire to set it higher than that even after the build. Pushrods are really necessary?

Ben, my thoughs would be if you are running a heavier duty valve spring you are gonna want a heavy duty push rod or you might run into problems with bending the stock push rods

[ecc_33]

Ben,
Johnboy,Me,My cousin have been turing 46--+ for along time now and no problems yet knock on wood....Now i guess it would change with more boost pressure.

Thanks Johnboy for checking on the pricing

Kinda off topic but Mcrat did you run the "big" exhaust housing when you were running the gt4088r? And did you wrap your downpipe in heat wrap?

[JOHNBOY]

Eric

No Problem;)

Ben

Guy has push rods. $300 IIRC. EEP also has them. That is what I have. Not sure of the price as they came with the cam. With the heavier seat pressures of the Socal springs I would not risk a valvetrain train wreak in a $10k+ engine over a $300 dollar set of push rods.

IIRC stock push rods .056 wall tubing. Socal .093, EEP.125.

I think EEPs are over kill but I going to try them. I am a little worried about their weight. I might by some from Guy just in case.


It takes cubic dollars to build one of these things right. I quit counting a while ago. It was starting to scare me. Joy is still counting though.:rofl: I going to need more shiny things.

[super diesel]

Right on the money about the push rods. I would hate to skimp and find out latter (during a run) that there needed. It is VERY costly to put one together right (depending on what you want to do with it). Change the valve train bolts (5 on each side) as well with at least some grade 8 bolts too when going to the better valve springs. I believe the full open pressure is almost twices the stocker pressure.

[SmokeShow]

This is interesting. Here is what I - a person just looking in from the outside and not actually building anything - see going on here. There is very little difference in what a person does to their engine whether they are going for mild or wild. Either way you seem to do rods (same rods either way so no cost difference), pistons (kinda limited on choices so what you do for one, you likely do for the other type of build and thereagain, no difference in price), heavy duty valvetrain (springs, pushrods, etc.), cam and crank keyed. Only way to "skimp" for a lesser build is the cam and heads for which you would run stockers versus modified units. I suppose if you ran a big lift cam, you may have to do a little more to your pistons for valve clearance otherwise, all else the same? Am I seeing it right? Cam and heads are the only real difference between mild and wild engine builds? Then of course what size charger(s) you strap on the thing (not really a whole lot of cost difference in the overall scheme of things whether you run a 2.5, 2.8 or twins) and how much fuel you want to push at it (single or dual CP3).


C-ya

[02freighttrain]

This is interesting. Here is what I - a person just looking in from the outside and not actually building anything - see going on here. There is very little difference in what a person does to their engine whether they are going for mild or wild. Either way you seem to do rods (same rods either way so no cost difference), pistons (kinda limited on choices so what you do for one, you likely do for the other type of build and thereagain, no difference in price), heavy duty valvetrain (springs, pushrods, etc.), cam and crank keyed. Only way to "skimp" for a lesser build is the cam and heads for which you would run stockers versus modified units. I suppose if you ran a big lift cam, you may have to do a little more to your pistons for valve clearance otherwise, all else the same? Am I seeing it right? Cam and heads are the only real difference between mild and wild engine builds? Then of course what size charger(s) you strap on the thing (not really a whole lot of cost difference in the overall scheme of things whether you run a 2.5, 2.8 or twins) and how much fuel you want to push at it (single or dual CP3).


C-ya Yea, that somes it up pretty good. It's gonna cost a lot, once you go inside the motor if you do it right. There are some other things that can rack the bill on up, like, injectors. If you trust your old ones then all you need are nozzels ($7-800). Using new remans and nozzels will add quite a bit.
There are a lot of little thing that will add a grand more as it go's together.
I hate to think about it (ouch), but there is no way around it.

[JOHNBOY]

Change the valve train bolts (5 on each side) as well with at least some grade 8 bolts too when going to the better valve springs. I believe the full open pressure is almost twices the stocker pressure.

Good Call!

This is interesting. Here is what I - a person just looking in from the outside and not actually building anything - see going on here. There is very little difference in what a person does to their engine whether they are going for mild or wild. Either way you seem to do rods (same rods either way so no cost difference), pistons (kinda limited on choices so what you do for one, you likely do for the other type of build and thereagain, no difference in price), heavy duty valvetrain (springs, pushrods, etc.), cam and crank keyed. Only way to "skimp" for a lesser build is the cam and heads for which you would run stockers versus modified units. I suppose if you ran a big lift cam, you may have to do a little more to your pistons for valve clearance otherwise, all else the same? Am I seeing it right? Cam and heads are the only real difference between mild and wild engine builds? Then of course what size charger(s) you strap on the thing (not really a whole lot of cost difference in the overall scheme of things whether you run a 2.5, 2.8 or twins) and how much fuel you want to push at it (single or dual CP3).


C-ya

I agree with that. Basicly it comes down to the engine was well designed. What ever spec they shot for as a output vs. fatuige they did a great job. The limits of the OEM components are reached at basicly the same power level across the board.

[TurboBeagleBuggy]

This is interesting. Here is what I - a person just looking in from the outside and not actually building anything - see going on here. There is very little difference in what a person does to their engine whether they are going for mild or wild. Either way you seem to do rods (same rods either way so no cost difference), pistons (kinda limited on choices so what you do for one, you likely do for the other type of build and thereagain, no difference in price), heavy duty valvetrain (springs, pushrods, etc.), cam and crank keyed. Only way to "skimp" for a lesser build is the cam and heads for which you would run stockers versus modified units. I suppose if you ran a big lift cam, you may have to do a little more to your pistons for valve clearance otherwise, all else the same? Am I seeing it right? Cam and heads are the only real difference between mild and wild engine builds? Then of course what size charger(s) you strap on the thing (not really a whole lot of cost difference in the overall scheme of things whether you run a 2.5, 2.8 or twins) and how much fuel you want to push at it (single or dual CP3).


C-ya

That pretty much sums it up, I hope I don't get throwed out of the house :eek: I'm not looking forward to the cost of an engine project.

[WolfLLY]

If I wanted to stick with I-beams, are the R&R's the best choice? I cant see spending the extra $$ for the H beam carillo's when theres not much to prove they are better...

My heads are going to stay stock. No money to do anything performance oriented with them. But if I were to do ONE SINGLE thing to the heads, it should be Trippin's valve springs?? Key the cam, maybe talk to guy about how much a mild cam would cost. Pistons...maybe just shave the lip off some LB7's...I dont need anything lower than 16:1....Ill be sticking with the HTT. Maybe main studs if I have $ left over, but IMO I havent heard of enough failures to warrant them. Pat did 750rwhp with the HTT and all stock engine...I would like to have that and run fast in the 1/4 mile but WITH reliability. Mind you 95% of my daily driving and towing would be with a small tune. I just want to be able to run 700rwhp whenever I want to without worrying...

What im thinking of.

rods
head studs
key the cam and crank
valve springs
cut stock pistons
stock everything else

Thats going to be what Im basing my build around. If I have any money left over after thats done, maybe Ill look into a cam, probably not tho.


Ben, Your paying the extra money cause they are forged. Forged rods are stronger because of the grain structure.

[chevmike]

i know this is a real vague question with hundreds of variables, but just out of curiosity, what is a price range for a built engine. Its something i will likely look at doing in the future...long way to go before that.

[dieselson]

Man, those pistons, that is really starting to be the big question, I know we will have to do a build eventually. The price though, is something that is enough to actually make me want to return the truck to stock though.

[super diesel]

i know this is a real vague question with hundreds of variables, but just out of curiosity, what is a price range for a built engine. Its something i will likely look at doing in the future...long way to go before that.

Your probably looking in the 10K to 25K range for a good build (depends on who does it and how far). Many variables to this. Like hows the fuel system? What kind of shape is the other internals in? Any custom parts going in? New air system going on? More fuel going in?

[McRat]

I would not worry about pistons if you have your EGT's under control. I have no doubt EGT's are the killer. Wish I would have learned earlier.

As far as price to build an engine, it's the little things that kill you.

The bare minimum would be:

Head gaskets
Bearings
Studs
Key the Crank and Cam
Crower Rods
(reuse rings and pistons, KEEP IN ORDER@!)

This is assuming your engine is still running fine when you tear down.

Maybe $4500+ labor.

[ripmf666]

Hey Pat i'm looking into building soon, what did you find and what would you have changed, IS it ok to use the LBZ pistons or no.

Thank You
Henry

[JOHNBOY]

Here is what I have.

Rods 2700
Main and Head Studs 925
Bearings and Rings 600
Head gaskets and seals 400
Valve springs, seats, retainers 856
Balancing and line hone 430
GT42 1100
PPE mount kit 1600
CP3 X 2 2000
injectors 1400

That = 12011:eek:

That does not include the engine, all the machine work I did, all parts I made, or any of the labor.

[dieselson]

1100 for a GT42? This is what I came up with

Core Motor- $1000
Piston Modifications- $800 maybe?
Carrillo Rods- $3000
Pushrods- $300
Heads- $2000
Cam+Drive key Option-$1050
Main Studs- $400
Machining and labor- $3000
----------------------------
$11150 that isn't too bad, if we can tear our own engine down, we can save on labor. Those things are not the bare minimum, but it would make a pretty awesome high performance engine. Maybe 750 RWHP with the same turbo and same bigger injectors.

[JOHNBOY]

1100 for a GT42? This is what I came up with The GT42 I have is a jorunal bearing not ball bearing much keeper. The plain bearing charger is actually a spec charger in a local tractor pulling class. So my local injection shop stocks them.

Core Motor- $1000 Good luck cores are more like 4000
Piston Modifications- $800 maybe?
Carrillo Rods- $3000
Pushrods- $300
Heads- $2000
Cam+Drive key Option-$1050
Main Studs- $400
Machining and labor- $3000
----------------------------
$11150 that isn't too bad, if we can tear our own engine down, we can save on labor. Those things are not the bare minimum, but it would make a pretty awesome high performance engine. Maybe 750 RWHP with the same turbo and same bigger injectors.


;)

[dieselson]

;)

Thanks :) I've seen core motors on Ebay, where something simple is broken, and they go for about 1k.

[JOHNBOY]

Prices have gone up a good bit lately. The only engines I found under 2000 where on Car-part.com and they where engine fires. FWIW I bought my spare of a yard that listed on car-part.com and was very pleased.

[02freighttrain]

I've been trying to forget the bottomline number, but it's like Pat said the little stuff in a build can add significantly to the build cost. All said and done I have way over 20k in my motor with the cost of the turbo and twin pump.
Push Rods, Injector seals, Returnline seals, Misc gaskets, clamps, rocker arm bolts, shiney things for the wife, and a zillion other things can drain your wallet pretty fast.

Is it worth the sacrifice(s)? hell yeh.........

Fingers are crossed at all times on the piston issue.

[sweetdiesel]

Here is what I have.

Rods 2700
Main and Head Studs 925
Bearings and Rings 600
Head gaskets and seals 400
Valve springs, seats, retainers 856
Balancing and line hone 430
GT42 1100
PPE mount kit 1600
CP3 X 2 2000
injectors 1400

That = 12011:eek:


US Dollars:( just be glad you dont have to convert
atleast i got some of that stuff already
BUT like freigt said, shiney things for the wife just increased the cost

[ripmf666]

sucks having to pay off the wifes lol

[Kat]

sucks having to pay off the wifes lol

:eek::nunck::protest::box:




;)

[ripmf666]

:eek::nunck::protest::box:




;)



LOL She's got the little one coming in November, Then I will have to pay her off when I start building a motor for the 01 hehe the trade the 06 in on her a new tahoe

[MaxFarmer]

You guys arent kidding about the little stuff!! I got my bill from the stealership yesterday for just the rebuild (I had the machine work done elsewhere and paid for all the extra parts--head work, cam, turbo, etc... myself) and it was still almost $12,000! $7500 in labor alone and at least $4000 in gaskets and seals, also included new piston rings and all new bearings. I'm gettin close to $30K and I still only have 1 CP3! :eek:

[codyn]

im doing rods cam had to machine the block forged pistions and i'm not even close to $10000 who i have putting the motor together are only billing me 700 for tear down and assemble it. so i guess i will see how it runs when we put it back together

[MaxFarmer]

You are getting one HELL of a deal if you're getting the tear down and re-assemble for only $700! It may depend some if you're an LB7 or LLY (LB7's are harder to get to the injectors and such) but that is still damn cheap.

[codyn]

i have an lly but that was the quote i got from them so we will see

[TurboBeagleBuggy]

That's interesting, based on your location I have a good idea who it might be.

[codyn]

who do u think it is ?

[sweetdiesel]

Here is what I have.

Rods 2700
Main and Head Studs 925
Bearings and Rings 600
Head gaskets and seals 400
Valve springs, seats, retainers 856
Balancing and line hone 430
GT42 1100
PPE mount kit 1600
CP3 X 2 2000
injectors 1400

That = 12011:eek:

That does not include the engine, all the machine work I did, all parts I made, or any of the labor.

John sounds like your going to have a nice build :)
what type of injectors are you going to use?
and what is your opinion on heads?

[JOHNBOY]

Thanks Simon

Glad to here your back into a LB7:hug:

I have three sets of injectors right know. Stockers, ATS 40%, and F1 SUPERBIG MOFOs.

Break in with stockers and then I will start switching and tuning.

As far as heads mine are unported. I have all the good stuff piled on top of them. Socal springs, Ti Retainers, spring cups, my own rocker bridges, and EEP pushrods. While I like the idea of ported heads I did not like the idea of heavier valves. With the zero angle and the shrouding caused by a flat head (ie no chamber) I really did not think the added mass was worth the gain. But that is just my humble opinion. I was considering Socal Stage 1s. I still might try them if I cant get what I want from the stock castings.

My decision to not run ported casting was made after a lot of discussion with Drew at EEP and Guy at Socal. Dodges guys are making 800 to 900 and maybe more with a stock head. Are Dmax heads flow far better than a CTD head. Drew told me that one Dmax head would flow air almost as much a CTD.:eek: Now I am not saying that Guys heads are worth the money. they are very nice. I am very happy with all the parts Guy sold me.

[sweetdiesel]

Thanks Simon

Glad to here your back into a LB7:hug:

Drew told me that one Dmax head would flow air almost as much a CTD.:eek: WOW

John
sounds like you did your homework,how long till your up and running?

Yes im glad to get back into a LB7 again, I geuss no more bashing the lb7 anymore:eek::D