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Schwinn68
01-25-2009, 08:29 AM
what is the achilles heel of the LLY motors? the LBZ has rods and pistons. the LB7 has the injectors. From what I'm reading the LLY has the biggest stock turbo but the lbz spools faster?

How much horsepower are stock internal lly's pushing reliably? I keep hearing 500 rwhp is the benchmark number for reliability. I would like to get my truck to at least this level but I won't bother if it will drastically shorten engine life. I know I've got to pay to play and have no problem with that. It seems like the lly's are either the bastard child or the diamond in the ruff. any help on these questions would be appreciated and I'll ask more as I come to them. thanks

aggar
01-25-2009, 08:34 AM
Pay to play Benny!!!

duratothemax
01-25-2009, 10:52 AM
whats wrong with LBZ rods??

dmax687
01-25-2009, 11:17 AM
I thought it was more LBZ pistons was their problem?

LarryJewell
01-25-2009, 11:18 AM
I've gotten around 107000 miles on my LLY, bought it with 13000......immediately put a hypertech on it, quickly outgrew that and put an edge stacked with a predator, limped the transmission once and had it beefed up. I had this setup dynoed at +/- 375hp and 650 torque if I remember right. Shortly after this I got rid of the predator and stacked the edge with the bullydog, ran that setup for a while and then graduated to the standard PPE programmer. I got tired of the edge and got a van aaken for stacking and shortly after that sent in my ppe programmer for the hot + 2 upgrade. Had all the supporting mods with theses setups, a Fass 150/95 liftpump, Cold air intake, EGR delete kit, etc..........In January 2007 I bought EFI from Pat and have been running at the very least the tune Pat made or a variation of Salad tuning. In December 2007 I got a 68mm Cheetah turbo, shortly thereafter I tore up my first built transmission, this was at approximately 90,000 miles. Around April or May 2008 I upgraded to a 71.5mm Cheetah, a few months later I was testing tunes for a race and tore up my second built transmission, this time I completely ruined the front rotating assembly (see a pattern growing here - new turbo means broke transmission). Mike L. built the transmission I have now and its holding great, but I must admit that i'm being a lot easier on it. My current setup has the 71.5mm Cheetah, ported rail fitting, fprv Shim mod, Fass 150/150, Custom egr delete, Banks intercoler and larger boost tubes, Diamond eye downpipe with mbrp straight 5" exhaust, Banks LBZ CAI with LBZ turbo mouthpiece, and a few other things I cant think of.

I have no idea what horsepower or torque rating (I would assume at least 500 HP though) I have now but the motor really hasnt given me any problems. I do have a faint grey haze coming out of my pcv re-route hose, and a little oil residue at the end of the hose, I dont know if it is normal or not but I plan on driving it till it breaks. At that time i'll re-build the LLY, I plan on keeping this truck for a long time :D

LarryJewell
01-25-2009, 11:23 AM
Motor wise, I had one failed injector and it was only leaking at the seal........this sounds like an exhaust leak if anyone is wondering, the expensive part was replacing parts chasing this leaking sound :p

2500HeavyDuty
01-25-2009, 12:04 PM
I do have a faint grey haze coming out of my pcv re-route hose, and a little oil residue at the end of the hose, I dont know if it is normal or not

TxChristoper truck does the same thing, he has his routed right below the driver door and i was like wtf it that smoke from.

Big Block 88
01-25-2009, 12:58 PM
LBZ just crack pistons the rods rae pretty stout

Kat
01-25-2009, 02:06 PM
Blue has approx 85k on him. He has been beat on since day one. He had every tuner on him since day one at one time or another. Been stacked, ran as high as 65lbs of boost and then ran 45 lbs for a long time until we new better. Still original motor and turbo.

SIKDMAX
01-25-2009, 02:14 PM
Kat does Blue still run the PPE/VA stack or is it EFI LIVE now?

Kat
01-25-2009, 02:23 PM
Kat does Blue still run the PPE/VA stack or is it EFI LIVE now?

EFILive. But the track times and dyno numbers where from the PPE/VA so that is why that is still in my sig. :D

SIKDMAX
01-25-2009, 02:26 PM
Blue needs to come out of hiding :D

Kat
01-25-2009, 03:46 PM
Blue needs to come out of hiding :D

Well since Casper and Wendy have come along, Blue has pretty much been retired to being the tow vehicle again which he was original bought for.

Since for the weight factor alone Blue being a long bed 3500, he hasn't got a chance :(

Cougar281
01-25-2009, 03:57 PM
TxChristoper truck does the same thing, he has his routed right below the driver door and i was like wtf it that smoke from.

Mine does the same thing; If I take the oil cap off, I get a lot from there as well.

LarryJewell
01-25-2009, 04:08 PM
Mine does the same thing; If I take the oil cap off, I get a lot from there as well.

mine doesn't come from the oil cap yet :)

LarryJewell
01-25-2009, 04:09 PM
but if I add a 2nd cp3 it just might start :o

RodZZilla
01-25-2009, 07:42 PM
Since for the weight factor alone Blue being a long bed 3500, he hasn't got a chance :(

Would make a nice pulling truck. :D

Schwinn68
01-25-2009, 08:35 PM
I appreciate all the replies to this. It's obvious this is the place to come for the serious hot rodding questions.

Now, what is the LLY's main weakness?

It sounds like these should be able to hold up into the 600+ rwhp range on a stock bottom end. I'm just trying to get an idea of how far I could push this motor. I know tuning has a very important part in how long a motor will last, that is why I don't tune my own. I know my truck has more in it, I just need a built trans and more fuel.

beach_33
01-25-2009, 11:44 PM
i think the rods are the weak link. if you take care of that then you need to upgrade the cp3

LarryJewell
01-26-2009, 05:19 AM
i think the rods are the weak link. if you take care of that then you need to upgrade the cp3
maybe not in the case of our LLY's, I think the transmissions are our weak links :rofl:

skintback
01-26-2009, 08:36 AM
but if I add a 2nd cp3 it just might start :o

:f-that: :seesaw:

LarryJewell
01-26-2009, 08:45 AM
:f-that: :seesaw:

no, thinking about it pretty hard, 2nd cp3 and 40 over injectors, then pull timing and PW back a bunch :angel:

Schwinn68
01-26-2009, 09:26 AM
I think you should try it. Have you had your truck on a dyno recently? It would be nice to see the before and after if you put on the 2nd cp3 and injectors

LarryJewell
01-26-2009, 09:35 AM
no, its been several years since I was on a dyno, edge and predator stack to be exact

2500HeavyDuty
01-26-2009, 10:01 AM
no, thinking about it pretty hard, 2nd cp3 and 40 over injectors, then pull timing and PW back a bunch :angel:

who needs two cp3's :D

12secondhandshaker
01-26-2009, 10:19 AM
what is the achilles heel of the LLY motors? the LBZ has rods and pistons. the LB7 has the injectors. From what I'm reading the LLY has the biggest stock turbo but the lbz spools faster?

How much horsepower are stock internal lly's pushing reliably? I keep hearing 500 rwhp is the benchmark number for reliability. I would like to get my truck to at least this level but I won't bother if it will drastically shorten engine life. I know I've got to pay to play and have no problem with that. It seems like the lly's are either the bastard child or the diamond in the ruff. any help on these questions would be appreciated and I'll ask more as I come to them. thanks

As for the stock turbo the weakest link and power choker is the stock turbo inlet. Replace with a Kodiak or LBZ turbo inlet and you will really wake the charger up.

I have had my truck since 18,000 miles and have had a tuner od some sort since then. I have run 450+ whp for almost 2 years straight and have probably 100 drag strip passes under my belt with the truck.

We are going to push the limits of the stock turbo this year at 36psi of boost and build some custom(dyno tested) up pipes to try to push the motor to 550whp with a stock charger, cp3, and bottom end.

I think its all tuning when it comes down to the power a truck can run relaibly at;)

dmax687
01-26-2009, 11:02 PM
From what I understand pushing the stock turbo to 36psi wouldn't really help as I believe they are only good up to about 32psi. After that it doesnt help any.

12secondhandshaker
01-27-2009, 06:33 AM
With the LBZ mouthpiece the turbo become more efficient and may actually make usable power past 32psi with the restriction of the stock inlet no longer being a factor.

We will see what the dyon tells us???

LarryJewell
01-27-2009, 07:23 AM
good luck, keep us posted :)

Schwinn68
01-27-2009, 08:42 AM
As for the stock turbo the weakest link and power choker is the stock turbo inlet. Replace with a Kodiak or LBZ turbo inlet and you will really wake the charger up.

I have had my truck since 18,000 miles and have had a tuner od some sort since then. I have run 450+ whp for almost 2 years straight and have probably 100 drag strip passes under my belt with the truck.

We are going to push the limits of the stock turbo this year at 36psi of boost and build some custom(dyno tested) up pipes to try to push the motor to 550whp with a stock charger, cp3, and bottom end.

I think its all tuning when it comes down to the power a truck can run relaibly at;)

thank you for that very usable information. I do have a kodiak mouth piece installed on my truck and I got a noticeable increase in spoolup speed with faster boost and more of it.

My trans is still my weak link right now but as soon as that is addressed I would like to make over 500hp at the wheels. It's good to know that your truck has lasted two years at 450. I have a dsp5 switch so I would like a tune at that level as well. I'm hoping to have mine on a dyno in march to see where my truck is at right now. Let us know how your project goes. It's always good to see someone willing to push the stock parts to the limit. It gives the rest of us some great information.

12secondhandshaker
01-27-2009, 08:48 AM
450-475(PPE Hot+2) for 1.5 years and most of last year I was running custom EFi live tuning from Nick @ duramaxtuner estimated at 500whp or so.

A dyno session will tell me alot and dyno tuning new parts will a fun and informative experience for many of us.

A_T_Ver
01-27-2009, 09:13 AM
As for the stock turbo the weakest link and power choker is the stock turbo inlet. Replace with a Kodiak or LBZ turbo inlet and you will really wake the charger up.

I have had my truck since 18,000 miles and have had a tuner od some sort since then. I have run 450+ whp for almost 2 years straight and have probably 100 drag strip passes under my belt with the truck.

We are going to push the limits of the stock turbo this year at 36psi of boost and build some custom(dyno tested) up pipes to try to push the motor to 550whp with a stock charger, cp3, and bottom end.

I think its all tuning when it comes down to the power a truck can run relaibly at;)


Yeah keep us posted on this for sure. If you turn yours up i'll turn mine up. :hug:

othrgrl
01-27-2009, 09:57 AM
Last I was on the dyno I made 540hp with the Cheetah 68mm, LBZ CP3, and 90hp dynomite injectors - I ran a handful of 12.3 runs, 35+ 12.4 runs, 40+ 12.5 runs, and well over 130 runs total. I have absolutely beat on my truck since day one, used it for all of my EFI Live experiments, raced it almost every weekend, sometimes 2 days a week, and been very hard on it on the street every day.

Since then I added RDL headers and up-pipes and was tuning to get the turbo running as effeciently as possible, it was feeling a whole lot stronger in the top end and I was about to go back to the dyno and track when something let loose. My thought is that I dropped/broke a valve and that it took out a piston but we'll see on teardown if a valve was involved. Running 108mph in the 1/4 mile on 28" tires I was turning pretty high RPMs on the track and I have buried my speedo past 120 on multipile occasions on the street as well as making 9 dyno pulls to over 4000 RPM - that's alot to ask of stock valve springs and valves.

X2 on the LBZ inlet - dropped me from 12.85 to 12.53 with no other changes.

custom8726
01-27-2009, 12:45 PM
Last I was on the dyno I made 540hp with the Cheetah 68mm, LBZ CP3, and 90hp dynomite injectors - I ran a handful of 12.3 runs, 35+ 12.4 runs, 40+ 12.5 runs, and well over 130 runs total. I have absolutely beat on my truck since day one, used it for all of my EFI Live experiments, raced it almost every weekend, sometimes 2 days a week, and been very hard on it on the street every day.

Since then I added RDL headers and up-pipes and was tuning to get the turbo running as effeciently as possible, it was feeling a whole lot stronger in the top end and I was about to go back to the dyno and track when something let loose. My thought is that I dropped/broke a valve and that it took out a piston but we'll see on teardown if a valve was involved. Running 108mph in the 1/4 mile on 28" tires I was turning pretty high RPMs on the track and I have buried my speedo past 120 on multipile occasions on the street as well as making 9 dyno pulls to over 4000 RPM - that's alot to ask of stock valve springs and valves.

X2 on the LBZ inlet - dropped me from 12.85 to 12.53 with no other changes.

Thats good to hear, I just got my LBZ mouth piece yesterday, can't wait to get it installed..